Losing line as Orianna

[quote=JMastiff]I just bought Orianna. She is fun champ to play, i like the supporty - light mage feel of her but i can't seem to win a lane vs. hard combo casters like Brand, Veig, Ahri or Annie. When they unleash their crap on me around lvl 6-7 I can't seem to have a chance even with +13mres and my lightwieight harass (Q->W) isn't effective enough early on and it forces me to go full passive farm while playing defensive. Builds on mobafire seems generic (DRings->RoA/Rabaddon etc). Is there something I'm missing? Like building TotG so I can spam those Qs and cut their movement routes constantly but with lighter damage?[/quote]

[quote=Crows foot]Orianna is all about lane control and area presence. Show them clearly where they can and can't be, use your aa for harass and good last hitting. When u get some ap you start pushing your lane like crazy since your passive is godlike for taking down turrets. If they def turret too good, push lane and go wraiths or another lane. As said, presence is all for this gal :-)[/quote]

[quote=Shiikan]Welcome to my mini-laning phase guide on Orianna, the Lady of Clockwork. [b][u]If you're playing mid as Orianna:[/u][/b] [i]Take Q First, and max it first. (By level 9 you want 5 2 1 1 for skills)[/i] Try to autoattack minions/them and don't harass with the ball until they make the first move with their abilities. This allows you to keep mana in case they gank first, which lets you stay in lane longer (due to not being oom and dying) [b][u]If you're play bot as Orianna:[/u][/b] [i]Take Q First, and max it last. (By level 9 you want 1 5 2 1 for skills)[/i] Let your lane partner attack the minions and focus your mana on Command:Protecting them/Command:Disonnancing them (if chasing or running away) while autoattacking the enemy champions. [b]*REMEMBER: Your ball works like an unlimited time sight ward, so you can keep it in the brush to check for ganks.[/b] [b][u]For items:[/u][/b] Start with boots and 3 health potions, it will help you avoid skillshots (Annie Tibbers, Ahri..everything, Veigar E/W) Play passive until you can recall and buy 2 Doran's Rings, which is when you'll want to start playing aggressive. At this point, you should have enough lane power to at least defend your lane well. Afterwards (Personal preference) I buy Catalyst and [b]leave it that way.[/b] I don't like RoA on Orianna (personallll preferennnnnceee) and I end up building it into a late banshee's. After Catalyst I get Hextech/Sheen & Rabadon. Build Hextech into WotA, get Zhonya's, build Sheen into Lich & finish with Catalyst. Now you have: Doran's, Sorcerer's, Rabadon, WotA, Lich Bane, Zhonya's You can also sell your Doran's for something else if you'd like.[/quote]

[quote=Mowen]Shiikan makes a good point, do you start with [[boots of speed]] x 3 [[health potion]]'s? This is essential for playing mid, don't start with a Doran's ring. You need sustain. Otherwise I haven't played her in a long time, sorry I can't help more. :( Shiikan's advice seems pretty solid.[/quote]

[quote=JMastiff]Mowen- yep, on all ap carries I do. Like I said, I domminate early. Thing is I can't exchange well, the damage is too low and range puts me in danger everytime i move the ball. I have 9 mpen marks, 1/2 mpen quints, 1/2 flat ap quints, armor/mreg seals, flat mres glyphs and go 21/9/0. I can't imagine Shiikan scenario vs non poky champs like Veigar or Annie. If they catch me offguard they can burst me down in 2-3 combos where I would need to catch them at least 6-7 times with Q->W(E), not to mention it makes me mana hungry like hell.[/quote]

[quote=Shiikan]Orianna has lower damage, but high CC. Think of it this way: Hard CC > Hard Damage If the enemy has a Katarina who does 2000 damage with her ultimate, and Orianna uses HER ultimate to Stun Katarina...What good IS Katarina? With your example, Veigar and Annie are both nuke-styled AP Carries. With [[boots of speed]] you can dodge what MAKES them Nuke. Annie can't land her Stun Tibbers on you if you run out of where you know she'll cast it. Veigar can't stun you to fire his combo off if you know where he'll cast it. [[boots of speed]] let you run around the lane like lightning with Skillshot champions with nothing to do. 3 [[health potion]] lets you survive if you were to be punished for making a mistake. And the mana hungry, this is why I told you to autoattack, Orianna's passive makes her autoattack beast early game. Her ball does little damage, but her autoattack does massive when paired over time. Orianna VS Annie in autoattacks? Orianna will win. For your Runes/Masteries 9 MPen marks 9 Armor/9 Clarity Seals 9 AP/9 MR Glyphs 3 AP Quints 21/0/9[/quote]

[quote=JMastiff]Good Veigars know how to place the stun (just target the AoE the way you place the edge on the char) and believe me they will get you if you get in range, which is btw higher than Ori AA and after 6 lvl it disables her ability to succesfully harrass (mind the low dmg). Good Nuke Ap-carries will not poke (veig W), its not about dodge (it would be if i didn't get the shoes and would stumble on creeps), they will wait for good position to combo and will execute it far more effective than Orianna. Annie stunned me and 3 shotted (after previous exchange) under my turret, I couldn't do really much than poke her 2-3 times and get her to 30% health with turret shot. Of course I know where she will stun me, I can see where she walks, the thing is after some time it becomes nearly impossible to be aggresive because of the low dmg. CC isn't enough - like, what if I slow her/him - I'm still running cause I can't trade well enough and can get zoned. It is much easier vs ie. Morganna that couldn't hit me with her snare skillshot. She doesnt have that extreme burst potential so I'm really specific here. In case of AA it's same thing. If you AA early game, you'll lose health to minions and blow those potions early and if you AA later they will unload the combo.[/quote]

[quote=PsiGuard][[Mercury's Treads]] and [[Quicksilver Sash]] are really strong if you're having trouble against [[Veigar]]. If you're losing your lane, it's usually because you weren't aggressive enough before level 6. You have to start zoning Veigar immediately if you want to win your lane. If you just let him farm he'll destroy you with his nuke. [[Annie]]'s skillshots are instant, but her targeted ability is a slow-ish projectile. You should be able to block a lot of the damage with [[Command: Protect]] as long as you're carrying the ball. Your harass is quite long range and you are capable of remote-farming, so don't get zoned by her when she tries to be aggressive with her stun up. [[Brand]] is much simpler to play against. His nuke is a skillshot and his stun is a comboed skillshot that can be blocked by minions. Start boots and get some early sustain (whether that be [[Catalyst the Protector]], [[Doran's Ring]]s or [[Hextech Revolver]]) and you should be fine. He's not an easy lane opponent, but he shouldn't be able to dominate that matchup. [[Ahri]] needs to land [[Charm]] if she wants to combo. Don't let her. Dodge her Q and suddenly she can't harass and doesn't deal much damage.[/quote]

[quote=JMastiff]Thanks Psi, that was pretty cool advice. Finally I've won some games with her vs. bad (yes, they made mistakes) Veigars with going aggressive on them (+scaling mreg seals and going DRing>TotG>Sorc>Raba) but it made me prone to gank (which fortunately didn't happen). There's one thing I havent considered though which is Chalice of Harmony. Gonna try it out instead TotG (will see if before DRing) and post it here how it goes.[/quote]

[quote=Senac]I've only used chalice against Blanc and Veigar so far. Never had trouble with Annie, but I probably met the noobs. Chalice is nice though, especially if you're very equal, your jungler needs 2nd blue or they are simply winning. Usually I build like this Boots + HP pots - 1/2x dorans -> Raba -> (This is were I build Zhonyas if needed, Nashor's Tooth if I feel safe enough to make use of my autoattacks) and then Lich bane for a turret destroying soab.[/quote]