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Thanks bro, edit option, got it. But Veigar needs more ap for sure, I mean, dfg was a big part on his kit and that too was 120 ap. I'm hoping it will include some cdr because atm there is only the grail and the omicom.
Edit: lol i used edit, twice!
Edit: lol i used edit, twice!
Vapora Dark wrote:
GMD is rubbing off on you.
So you watch me? Kinky.
Vapora Dark wrote:
... It was neither implied nor thought. I was just saying that because I've seen GMD take the time to point that out before in numerous posts.
And I will continue to do so until everyone gets it right.
Vapora Dark wrote:
Also, most of you are really undervaluing Veigar lol. Just because he's not great doesn't mean he's useless like you're all making him out to be. And no, his W is nowhere near unhittable, you just place it so that the enemy either has to either walk into it, or stop what they're doing to go out of their way to dodge it.
I've seen very good
Veigar players plenty of time actually playing the champion correctly, but they don't get delusional about his strengths and will always say that other champions are much better picks. From a competitive standpoint, Veigar just isn't good and that's just the nature of his kit. I'm not saying that there's no way you can use him properly in solo queue, but these changes will not do anything to change that. I fear that, with respect to the E change, he'll actually be worse.ThreadOfFate wrote:
What they've done is taken a champion with reliable bursting power.
Then they removed Deathfire Grasp. Not a big deal, only a little off of the burst.
Then they made it so that the one thing he had going for him (Reliable burst!) is now much weakened.
So now what we have is... A walking 1000 AP champion with a very low chance of being able to even get into range, let alone hit most of his abilities late game. Which is ridiculous when his whole point lategame was to catch a priority target out, and make sure they did not exist for the next fight. Taking that away from him has made him quite possibly one of the most useless champion's in the game IMO.
And I may or may not be slightly salty because now I won't use my Final Boss as much :P.
Then they removed
Deathfire Grasp. Not a big deal, only a little off of the burst.Then they made it so that the one thing he had going for him (Reliable burst!) is now much weakened.
So now what we have is... A walking 1000 AP champion with a very low chance of being able to even get into range, let alone hit most of his abilities late game. Which is ridiculous when his whole point lategame was to catch a priority target out, and make sure they did not exist for the next fight. Taking that away from him has made him quite possibly one of the most useless champion's in the game IMO.
And I may or may not be slightly salty because now I won't use my Final Boss as much :P.
The
Final Boss Veigar
skin still makes him worth playing at times, I'll agree ^^.TheRealCefor wrote:
You'll be surprised how effective this strategy is to increase views of a thread. The 'upset' part is an act created by me to boosts posts and increase awareness about Veigar. Looks like you fell into my trap.
I guess attention is attention.
TheRealCefor wrote:
lol Grandmaster! You're so rude lolol.
I'm actually a really gentle soul, but no one notices.
TheRealCefor wrote:
If I remember right, I won that match with Cho.
I'm not talking about the match, I'm talking about your stupid assessments; who cares if you won or lost an inhouse game?
TheRealCefor wrote:
But anyways back to the 'topic', your only nail in Veigar is that, his skills are 'unreliable'. Well, when someone takes the time to master a champion, any champion for the matter, they tend to work with the intended flaws of that champion. Now saying a champion is bad simply because they are (lol toxic mindset) then what makes a champion good? As someone mentioned early, player skill really sets the bar for, bad champion and good champion.
I never said that. I said that
Veigar is, at best, a one for one champion, and the fact that is a best-case scenario isn't very good. Now, if Veigar actually had some other things to make up for this like a solid laning phase or superb utility then it would be all right, but he simply doesn't. Veigar is the kind of champion who does one rotation in a team fight and that's it; the stun is no doubt a very good ability – which they just nerfed – but the other parts of his kit are just mediocre at best. Compare Veigar's kit to the mid laners which are commonly played today, then you'll notice a drastic difference in terms of mobility, versatility, and length of the cool downs. Veigar, as of now, simply cannot compete with the top tier mid laners, and the fact he works out at times is just the nature of solo queue, but that's kind of in the same way that poorly constructed Yu-Gi-Oh! decks sometimes beat the good ones just because of random chance.TheRealCefor wrote:
Now if anyone feels the need to post another rage-filled, page-long essay. Here's an entirely fresh new page, just for you (Heart).
P.S. Veigar changes are great! He is definitely a viable choice for any mid-lane match-up
P.S. Veigar changes are great! He is definitely a viable choice for any mid-lane match-up
Thank you. Also, you have absolutely no concept of viable unless we are not talking about League of Legends in any competitive sense.
Vaan99 wrote:
You can (and should) use edit option for your posts. New ap item is necessary for burst mages, honestly, I see it being more useful on other champions than veigar. Veigar has many problems and damage ain't one.
Couldn't agree more.
None of us are saying veigar is bad simply because he is, I gave you an entire list of his faults, I told you straight up why he was bad.
You seem unable to except this, but believe it or not, reliability of a champions kit is part of what makes them good. If the kit is unreliable, It simply won't match the same amount of power at ANY level as a champion with a reliable kit.
A lot more goes into making a champion, such as having reasonable cool-downs, now correct me if I'm wrong, but Veigars stun is on a... 20 second cool-down? Goes down to 16? and his W is... 10 seconds? yeah. Pretty sure Gold card is on something like 4 or 5 after use at all levels, and also provides a large portion of damage with Lichbane.
Pretty sure LBs Ethreal Chain is on 10 seconds at max level, and 15 at a level 1, You can also use her ult to get the same result.
Zed doesn't even HAVE CC, but none of his burst is on a 10 second cool-down, and almost all of it is easy to land against players of equal skill.
Jayce has poke, a gap closer, AND he has assassination capabilities.
I don't feel the need to make more examples. All these champions have strong and reliable ways to dish out their damage and CCs, Veigars only consistency is his Q and his ult, one of which is becoming a skill shot. They're even nerfing his CC to make it less reliable.
Veigars consistency and reliability is part of his weakness, another part is his long cool-down's early to mid game, where even if you rush 40% CDR you're not maxing his stun til late game. Veigar is also almost entirely single target, his W being a small AoE with a long start-up. And again, any Veigar that tries to get past a good front line wont make it, as he has no reliable gap closer to preform his "assassination" type job. Veigar overall is a weak single target DPS champion with little to no cleanup ability compared to other champions with resets (kha, Kat, etc) or champions with gap closer's (Leblanc, Kassadin, Zed, Lissandra, Azir, Fizz, Ahri, Twisted fate, Akali, need I list more?)
Now, onto the changes to Veigar. I like them, they're a STEP in the right direction, but they aren't enough. The Q is a good change, it lets you harass more and MAYBE just MAYBE get some damage on that back line without having to inch past a tank. His Stun change is a hard hit, but changing the cool-down on this is a huge help to his overall capabilities in a fight, 2 seconds is make or break, and if a Veigar can land this stun consistently still, he'll be more useful with that smaller cool-down (nearly 7 seconds with max CDR).
His Q's range increase is a huge help if he can continue to reliably and consistently land it, though still, it wont be enough in my opinion to make him strong as an assassin type mage.
His W's cool-down was reduced, again a huge help but it's still not a reliable skill shot, and landing it without the stun wont be possible against players who can properly play against it.
The ults cool-down and cost are helpful, and make it a more reliable ability, but the 1-1 ratio for AP is still only gonna be good if you can farm up that Q, and if you get bullied out of lane you might not be able to manage that. Not to say that the increased range on his Q wont HELP with that, but it only hits two targets, and you might not always be able to get a minion you wanted to.
Simply put, the changes are only a step in the right direction, Veigars Kit is unreliable, and provides little to a team fight, his new kit only helps that a small amount. Veigar is a 1v1 champion without a gap closer, Without reliable ways to assist a team fight, and without more effective ways to do his damage to a back line that's well defended.
All of this is coming from someone who loves Veigar, mind you. I have the bad Santa Veigar skin, I like playing Veigar, I think he's fun. But I honestly think you have let your enjoyment of a champion blind you to his overall weaknesses. The new changes wont make Veigar OP, they'll make him better, but he still wont be good.
Simply put, a squishy, single target burst mage with long cooldowns, and no escape/gap closer Simply wont do in this meta, where burst mages have gap closers, or escapes, or a defensive mechanism to protect them once they get the job done.
I'll give Veigar one thing, His stun is great for disengage in the jungle, "you want to go this way? to bad!"
honestly though man, No ones telling you not to play him, or not to enjoy him, but we all provided our divided opinions of Veigar, in a thread about opinions of Veigar.
And before you say "don't compare him to other champions" a champion doing your job better makes you weaker than that champion, regardless of if you're statistically or theoretically a decent champion. (example is Sona, a support whose scalings and kit are decent but other supports do her job better than she does)
You seem unable to except this, but believe it or not, reliability of a champions kit is part of what makes them good. If the kit is unreliable, It simply won't match the same amount of power at ANY level as a champion with a reliable kit.
A lot more goes into making a champion, such as having reasonable cool-downs, now correct me if I'm wrong, but Veigars stun is on a... 20 second cool-down? Goes down to 16? and his W is... 10 seconds? yeah. Pretty sure Gold card is on something like 4 or 5 after use at all levels, and also provides a large portion of damage with Lichbane.
Pretty sure LBs Ethreal Chain is on 10 seconds at max level, and 15 at a level 1, You can also use her ult to get the same result.
Zed doesn't even HAVE CC, but none of his burst is on a 10 second cool-down, and almost all of it is easy to land against players of equal skill.
Jayce has poke, a gap closer, AND he has assassination capabilities.
I don't feel the need to make more examples. All these champions have strong and reliable ways to dish out their damage and CCs, Veigars only consistency is his Q and his ult, one of which is becoming a skill shot. They're even nerfing his CC to make it less reliable.
Veigars consistency and reliability is part of his weakness, another part is his long cool-down's early to mid game, where even if you rush 40% CDR you're not maxing his stun til late game. Veigar is also almost entirely single target, his W being a small AoE with a long start-up. And again, any Veigar that tries to get past a good front line wont make it, as he has no reliable gap closer to preform his "assassination" type job. Veigar overall is a weak single target DPS champion with little to no cleanup ability compared to other champions with resets (kha, Kat, etc) or champions with gap closer's (Leblanc, Kassadin, Zed, Lissandra, Azir, Fizz, Ahri, Twisted fate, Akali, need I list more?)
Now, onto the changes to Veigar. I like them, they're a STEP in the right direction, but they aren't enough. The Q is a good change, it lets you harass more and MAYBE just MAYBE get some damage on that back line without having to inch past a tank. His Stun change is a hard hit, but changing the cool-down on this is a huge help to his overall capabilities in a fight, 2 seconds is make or break, and if a Veigar can land this stun consistently still, he'll be more useful with that smaller cool-down (nearly 7 seconds with max CDR).
His Q's range increase is a huge help if he can continue to reliably and consistently land it, though still, it wont be enough in my opinion to make him strong as an assassin type mage.
His W's cool-down was reduced, again a huge help but it's still not a reliable skill shot, and landing it without the stun wont be possible against players who can properly play against it.
The ults cool-down and cost are helpful, and make it a more reliable ability, but the 1-1 ratio for AP is still only gonna be good if you can farm up that Q, and if you get bullied out of lane you might not be able to manage that. Not to say that the increased range on his Q wont HELP with that, but it only hits two targets, and you might not always be able to get a minion you wanted to.
Simply put, the changes are only a step in the right direction, Veigars Kit is unreliable, and provides little to a team fight, his new kit only helps that a small amount. Veigar is a 1v1 champion without a gap closer, Without reliable ways to assist a team fight, and without more effective ways to do his damage to a back line that's well defended.
All of this is coming from someone who loves Veigar, mind you. I have the bad Santa Veigar skin, I like playing Veigar, I think he's fun. But I honestly think you have let your enjoyment of a champion blind you to his overall weaknesses. The new changes wont make Veigar OP, they'll make him better, but he still wont be good.
Simply put, a squishy, single target burst mage with long cooldowns, and no escape/gap closer Simply wont do in this meta, where burst mages have gap closers, or escapes, or a defensive mechanism to protect them once they get the job done.
I'll give Veigar one thing, His stun is great for disengage in the jungle, "you want to go this way? to bad!"
honestly though man, No ones telling you not to play him, or not to enjoy him, but we all provided our divided opinions of Veigar, in a thread about opinions of Veigar.
And before you say "don't compare him to other champions" a champion doing your job better makes you weaker than that champion, regardless of if you're statistically or theoretically a decent champion. (example is Sona, a support whose scalings and kit are decent but other supports do her job better than she does)
Ban out GoodPlays GG
lolol you used the full page, I'm so happy. Can we be friends now?! Veigar's greatest trait is his ability to be underestimated, and that happens plenty. Now you keep saying his kit is only one-for-one and he is useless after his kit is burned. But you know his q is only a 2 sec cd and that it basically does as much damage as his total ap? The 60% ap scale and 250ish flat damage normally adds up to around Veigar's current ap, so he's not as much as a one-trick pony like you might think.
But seriously, can we be friends? We can duo queue
But seriously, can we be friends? We can duo queue
<Member>