New Veigar About to Change the Game

[quote=TheRealCefor]Now look at that. The farming potential of Veigar has literally just doubled. Baleful Strike is now a skillshot with increased range, hiding in bushes can't stop Veigar anymore. Event Horizon is now meant to trap baddies, meaning it will be much easier to get the effective use out of this skill (And will provide much funner player interactions with Veigar). All skills have lower mana costs, lower cd, and a few other goodies. Now think of how much Veigar annoys you already, soon he's going to terrify you. Opinions?[/quote]

[quote=DillButt64]baleful strike change is good but its only double if you can get two minions each time with it, it is actually better as a harassing tool early game and the added range makes it better i dont see how event horizon having a delay is going to make it easier to get the effective use out of it especially if youve mastered hitting the stun, if anything itll give champions with dashes a chance to get out of the cage without getting stunned making it harder to use [quote] Baleful Strike (Q) : Q is now a skill shot that stops on second unit hit. Grants 1 AP for each unit killed Range increased to 850 from 650 Cooldown changed to 7/6.5/6/5.5/5 from 8/7/6/5/4 Dark Matter (W) : Mana cost lowered to 70/75/80/85/90 from 70/80/90/100/110 Cooldown lowered to 10/9.5/9/8.5/8 from 10 at all ranks Event Horizon (E) : Now has a .75 second delay with a warning particle before walls pop up Mana cost lowered to 80/85/90/95/100 from 80/90/100/110/120 Cooldown lowered to 18/17/16/15/14 from 20/19/18/17/16 Range increased to 700 from 650 Primordial Burst (R) : AP Ratio lowered to 1.0 from 1.2 Mana cost lowered to 125 at all ranks from 125/175/225 Cooldown lowered to 120/100/80 from 130/110/90 [/quote] those are the changes btw[/quote]

[quote=TheRealCefor]I understand how someone who has an unverified league account will think this[/quote]

[quote=LevasK][quote=TheRealCefor]I understand how someone who has an unverified league account[/quote] ^What does that have to do with anything? Also just looking at these changes on "paper", I have to agree with DillButt64. The new [[Baleful Strike]] is going to only occasionally net you two AP stacks, however it does open up the possibility to both stack and harass at the same time, as opposed to the current [[Baleful Strike]], which forces you to choose between the two. The slight increase in range on [[Event Horizon]] is not going to make up for that crappy delay and if anything, the fact that it's no longer instant is going to make it harder to stun both good and bad players alike. All other changes look fine, but I guess we'll have to wait and see how [[Veigar]] works, once the changes go live.[/quote]

[quote=utopus]The lower CD allows for faster stacking/poking too[/quote]

[quote=HiFromBuddha][quote=LevasK] The slight increase in range on [[Event Horizon]] is not going to make up for that crappy delay and if anything, the fact that it's no longer instant is going to make it harder to stun both good and bad players alike. [/quote] Sorry for doing this, but I'm going to really have to nitpick here. Just to get my pet peeves out of the way, analysing this, writing this is pointless as it's incredibly obvious and does not emphasise any point you are trying to make. Of course adding a delay is going to make it harder to hit. What's more impactful to say is that this nerf is going to bring down [[Veigar]]'s reliability as a whole, as then you're thinking and looking at the big picture. Anyway, to further elaborate on this point, this nerf is going to bring down [[Veigar]]'s reliability as a whole. Previously, this ability was not used for it's trapping purposes as a cage. It was simply an awkward skillshot that generally meant for an instant stun if you were used to the awkward aiming of it. This is meant to make it a cage. There's no more bullshit to this ability. If you were in range of [[Veigar]], then the only way to actually avoid a stun was to hope that he missed due to the awkward targeting of the ability. While yes, it's still possible to get an immediate stun off this ability, I'm fairly certain that a majority of the time, people will simply opt to stay within the cage when they see the indicator pop up rather than try to leg past it. [[Event Horizon]] was detrimental to landing [[Dark Matter]] on champions. There was way too long of a delay on it so the chances of someone just strolling into it was nil. With the changes to both [[Baleful Strike]] and [[Dark matter]] remaining the same, the necessity for the stun is increased, as otherwise, you're missing out on two major parts of your kit which is burst-oriented. Hence, his reliability as a burst mage goes down. Personally, I don't think these changes will bring him into play. They're mechanics based changes, and the damage based changes are actually nerfs if anything. The only way a champion like [[Veigar]], who is very reliant on being able to get through early game and reliant on his global stun to be useful for the team, to actually get play is if his numbers were very overtuned like [[Rek'sai]]. Sadly, his numbers are going down and his CC is becoming less reliable. He may have a chance though, who knows. The reduced abilities cooldown negates one of the biggest issues of burst mages of having really long gaps between burst and being generally useless within that time. [[Veigar]] suffered from this. He's only going to use [[Primordial Burst]] once per fight unlike [[Leblanc]] who can burst multiple targets in one fight (among other things that makes [[Leblanc]] much stronger than [[Veigar]]).[/quote]

[quote=TheRealCefor]You guys know that the stun's delay is only .75 seconds, leaving less then a second to not make a mistake. The stun wall has always been meant to be a critical zoning spell, with the stun as an added bonus for anyone who doesn't play cautiously. Being caught in the box is cc in itself and can cause trapped opponents to panic if Veigar is not alone. And with the new cd, that stun wall is coming up about every 7 seconds with meteor being dropped around every 4 seconds. Plus, any enemy affected by any form cc will be an easy target for an insta-stun. P.S. Having an enemy to burn flash out of the stun wall is good. All dashes and most jump abilities will still stun an enemy.[/quote]

[quote=DillButt64]but now they dont have to burn out flash to get out of the stun because they have .75 seconds to react to it (which is actually a lot of time to react to something) they can instead use things like Leblancs dash, Trist rocket jump, Corkis dash, Graves dash, Akali can dash out of the box in that 0.75 seconds if she has a target, Caitlyn can net in that 0.75 seconds, Irelia is the same as Akali, etc. the fact that people can use a dash instead of a blink/flash to get out of the stunbox before it happens is a nerf, cooldown doesnt matter because if they use the dash to get away theyre probably far enough away to not get hit by it again and if they use it to get closer to you then youre probably already dead plus if you trap a ranged champion in the cage they can still use autos and abilities to damage you while inside of the cage, a stun is always going to be better[/quote]

[quote=Jimmydoggga 2.0]So the fact that a Veigar can oneshot you late game with a stun that pops up instantly isn't bs or toxic at all. Or the fact that he can trap 5 people for 3 seconds with no escape opportunity. Yeah none of that made him a bullshit champion.[/quote]

[quote=GrandmasterD]Oh dear Alien Overlord Xenu, it's the guy who thinks [[Veigar]] and [[Cho'Gath]] are still the most amazing fucking champions in game, ever since they were released. How to put this delicately...? Well, [[Veigar]]'s design strategically sucks because he is a 1 for 1 champion at best; expends his burst, has nothing left – thus becomes worthless – and takes a kill (hopefully). On top of that, his base stats are still incredibly low, thus he won't survive a lane against any competent mid-laner. Then, they didn't actually address the mana cost of Q, which will cause you to go OOM even by using on cool down just to farm creeps. Additionally, they made him more inconsistent... Yes, I'm sure [[Veigar]] will be fan-fucking-tastic. For the tl;dr I have Steve Carell for you on the question of “Is [[Veigar]] viable now?” [img=http://i.imgur.com/iuN6JTx.gif][/quote]