What are jungle buffs?

[quote=LalaSama][quote=Vynertje] @LalaSama: I would remove all the additional info on what buff to start and why to, because it is (A) partially incorrect and (B) you might want to wait with such statements till some clear strategies have been developped for S4. All junglers used to start at the bottom side (regardless what buff) so they could get extra help from their botlane. Right now, I think it all depends on what lane you want to gank first. [/quote] Like I stated in my message though, this is the way I personally see the jungle, my opinion. And regarding this: [i]"All junglers used to start at the bottom side (regardless what buff) so they could get extra help from their botlane."[/i] I'm not ashamed to tell you that I am currently in silver 2 and it's way different in there. I don't know what your elo is and maybe in your elo everyone starts red if they are blue team, but on my elo they don't. Besides, in my personal opinion I find it much nicer to start blue when I'm playing (for example) Elise than starting red just because I have three people leashing it instead of two. Apart from that, I did state that you can choose which buff to start by where you want to gank first.[/quote]

[quote=Vynertje]Mind this: I'm Diamond 5 (sadly mobafire verification bugs so I don't have the icon anymore) and I said 'used to' - it was the standard S3 meta.[/quote]

[quote=LalaSama]Fair enough, that's why your opinion on this is very different than mine when it comes to placement. I don't really watch any high ELO streams so I don't know how it goes around there :3 And I was also talking about the "used to". Season 3 experiences, not preseason. Forgot to mention that ^^''[/quote]

[quote=jhoijhoi]What? Since when did [i]everyone[/i] "used to" start at Red Buff no matter what? That's erroneous information if I've ever seen any.[/quote]

[quote=PsiGuard]It was never a rule of meta (if there is such a thing) but a lot of junglers would do it because it's much easier to get a smiteless leash from an adc and support than from a top laner. Usually the top laner would give you a shitty leash or they'd lose gold and xp from staying too long. Lots of mid laners wouldn't/don't even leash because they're melee or they have short AA/spell range. Currently it matters a lot less where you start because you can and should use [[smite]] on the first buff, do a small camp, then use smite on the second buff. This gets you to level 3 with double buff and requires very little help from laners. Also part of the reason of the bot-side start is that pretty much zero top laners were starting with wards so both junglers would often race to top lane to get a gank off before the other jungler showed up. You could also gank mid though a lot of junglers have more trouble ganking mid early on in the game. Now every solo laner starts with a free 1 minute ward so there's less pressure to get to top lane. It's actually a lot easier to gank bot now than it used to be because supports start with few wards.[/quote]

[quote=jhoijhoi]Just a few things I'd like to comment on. [quote=PsiGuard] It was never a rule of meta (if there is such a thing) but a lot of junglers would do it because it's much easier to get a smiteless leash from an adc and support than from a top laner.[/quote] I found the opposite to be true. Mid and top were far more likely to help out at blue buff, than bot lane would to help with red buff. When bot lane corresponds with blue buff, they're there to help, however. I guess it depends on the players. [quote=psiguard]Usually the top laner would give you a shitty leash or they'd lose gold and xp from staying too long.[/quote] This was a problem in season 2 (when jungling truly was mandatory, and people were still learning), but I didn't notice this happening in season 3 much - never encountered a buff "steal" by an ally, or accidental gold/xp leech, like I did in season 2 (for example, when junglers used to start at a small camp, waiting for the buff camps to spawn). Are you blanket discussing this, or did it happen at your elo? I find it odd to think that people don't know how to jungle/help jungle in high plat.[/quote]

[quote=DKitten]See, I'd think bottom buff would be easiest to leash because you can literally leave all your carries in lane and just take the support. No carry would lose EXP, and supports, well, who cares about them? The only important levels for them are 3 and 6.[/quote]

[quote=Luther3000]@jhoi, if you get your top laner to give you smiteless you completely screw their lane over because their opponent will be like 90% of the way to level 2 with a huge minion wave by the time they reach lane. It actually screws bot lane too but not as much since 2 people DPS faster. I can't count the number of times that I've been screwed over beyond repair by bullshit level 1 brush cheese or fast pushes due to our lane helping the jungler and the enemy lane not helping. It was a serious problem in season 3, it's a little better now but still very annoying.[/quote]

[quote=utopus]Lol yeah. When i'm mid/top and leashing, I always tell my jungler, "you get a Q + one AA." I'm sure it drives all my friends insane, but the cs&exp lead is so much more substantial in solo lanes compared to bot lane.[/quote]

[quote=LalaSama]If your top laner your minions will be in lane later than a mid laner's minions are. As a top laner you can, for that reason, give more than just one auto attack to the buff. And since when do top laners not buy wards? I ALWAYS buy one ward when I'm top or mid.[/quote]