Why is Support role not wanted so much?

[quote=Jovy]If you mean during lane, maybe. Until you get sightstone it's pretty normal to get some help from the jungler and the ADC, though. If they can't provide it then you might have some vision problems, which I guess [i]technically[/i] ia -your- fault, assuming you're the support, but it really can't be helped in a lot of cases. After lane phase it's to be expected that everyone pitches in at least a little, as you can only have 3 (4) wards placed at a time. @Polse, oh please. Although it's true that your support should be able to interrupt abilities if they have an ability to interrupt with, it doesn't mean that you shouldn't be making a conscious effort to avoid skillshots and so. I mean, just because I have blackshield up it doesn't mean you should go flaunting around carelessly trying to get a Leona E or Thresh Q out - cuz you can, or go too deep into tower range or run up to them or their carry. Even though I definitely can, in most cases, save you - it doesn't mean you shouldn't try to stay out of danger and that you shouldn't take uncalculated risks. @"Logician", you could not be more wrong even if you tried really really hard and devoted your life to the goal of being more wrong.[/quote]

[quote=Relentless Logic]@"MissMaw", I couldn't give a hoot about your random response to me even if you tried really hard to make me care. Clearly, the definition of an opinion escapes you. Also, you cannot refute any of the aforementioned facts. FYI, look up tautology; it'll help your dreadful attempt at being condescending. To someone well-versed in the art of dialogue, your pithy attempt at coming across as superior is laughable at best. If you don't understand what I'm saying... Google is your friend. :) Best, The Logician[/quote]

[quote=Meiyjhe][quote=Relentless Logic] @"MissMaw", I couldn't give a hoot about your random response to me even if you tried really hard to make me care. Clearly, the definition of an opinion escapes you. Also, you cannot refute any of the aforementioned facts. FYI, look up tautology; it'll help your dreadful attempt at being condescending. To someone well-versed in the art of dialogue, your pithy attempt at coming across as superior is laughable at best. If you don't understand what I'm saying... Google is your friend. :) Best, The Logician [/quote] One of your "facts" state that supports cannot carry their lanes because if the support buffs the ADC, he is reliant on the ADC to do his job properly. The problem is, supports can do more than just buff ADC's. They can poke, they can do CC, they can disengage, they can ward a lot and since start of season 4, they can deal damage. If a support does his job well, then he can have a huge impact on the game. The support is also relevant below Plat 3 :p The only thing that is really true about your statements is that the support is heavily dependant on the lane partner. This doesn't mean that when the support has a bad ADC that it is GGWP, but that means that the support needs to adapt and do even more his best in order to win. If a support does his job better than the enemy support, the chances of a winning lane is bigger than when the ADC does his job better than the enemy ADC.[/quote]

[quote=KazamaShoichi]I love supporting because I can say "Fudge you" to every skill shot and every dive. I only hate supporting when my ADR doesn't have proper runes (Can't trade with 68 dmg eh?) and when they play ashe or urgot.[/quote]

[quote=KazamaShoichi]Hey uhh... is it ok if I don't buy sightstone and instead buy 3 wards then upgrade my trinket to vision? Buying sightstone delays my Twin shadows and mikaels.[/quote]

[quote=emoriam][quote=KazamaShoichi] Hey uhh... is it ok if I don't buy sightstone and instead buy 3 wards then upgrade my trinket to vision? Buying sightstone delays my Twin shadows and mikaels. [/quote] But you would need to buy furthermore wards on and on (225 gold per three wards) and you can simply buy [[Sightstone]] because everyone else does the same thing - no advantage for anyone but no gold waste for you.[/quote]

[quote=Jovy][quote=Meiyjhe] [quote=Relentless Logic] @"MissMaw", I couldn't give a hoot about your random response to me even if you tried really hard to make me care. Clearly, the definition of an opinion escapes you. Also, you cannot refute any of the aforementioned facts. FYI, look up tautology; it'll help your dreadful attempt at being condescending. To someone well-versed in the art of dialogue, your pithy attempt at coming across as superior is laughable at best. If you don't understand what I'm saying... Google is your friend. :) Best, The Logician [/quote] One of your "facts" state that supports cannot carry their lanes because if the support buffs the ADC, he is reliant on the ADC to do his job properly. The problem is, supports can do more than just buff ADC's. They can poke, they can do CC, they can disengage, they can ward a lot and since start of season 4, they can deal damage. If a support does his job well, then he can have a huge impact on the game. The support is also relevant below Plat 3 :p The only thing that is really true about your statements is that the support is heavily dependant on the lane partner. This doesn't mean that when the support has a bad ADC that it is GGWP, but that means that the support needs to adapt and do even more his best in order to win. If a support does his job better than the enemy support, the chances of a winning lane is bigger than when the ADC does his job better than the enemy ADC. [/quote] Pretty much that. I don't understand why you're getting so rustled Logician, if your post is meant to upset me or eh.. make me feel bad (?) then it has failed but you are welcome to try again as many times as you wish. I could say "mean" things back in an attempt to hurt you as well, but I'm not trying to compensate for anything and I know I'm right, so it's fine. If you'd like to try and explain why your opinion is what it is, and why it's the "correct" one, then you are free to try to do that too, and I wish you luck with that. And please spare me the "lol I'm not rustled/annoyed"s and so on, that's really amateurish/childish. Then again using quotation marks for my name just because I did it to point out you weren't being logical was pretty childish so...[/quote]

[quote=XeresAce][quote=Relentless Logic] @"MissMaw", I couldn't give a hoot about your random response to me even if you tried really hard to make me care. Clearly, the definition of an opinion escapes you. Also, you cannot refute any of the aforementioned facts. FYI, look up tautology; it'll help your dreadful attempt at being condescending. To someone well-versed in the art of dialogue, your pithy attempt at coming across as superior is laughable at best. If you don't understand what I'm saying... Google is your friend. :) Best, The Logician [/quote] Are you implying that your mastery at dialogue is in any way, shape or form better than an average persons with high school level education? Having a high mastery in the art of dialogue means one thing only: You are perfectly able to describe your thoughts in a way understandable to everyone, yet characteristic to yourself - further backed up by logical arguments. Replacing simple words in a sentence with "complex" ones in an attempt to show a higher level of education is counter-intuitive and in turn, makes you seem like a condescending prick. Congratulations on that, friend. Best, Your average Joe Edit: I might as-well reply to your post before, and justify miss maw's opinion because I've got nothing better to do while on the train. [quote = Relentless Logic] Lol this thread, the decision criteria in most comments are so alarmingly flawed that it needs to be stated out; hence the lol. Facts: -> Majority of the games in question are solo-queue. -> In low elo, which I believe incorporates anything below plat3- support role is irrelevant, the competence of the marksman arbitrarily determines lane dominance. A God support who makes unbelievable plays WILL lose lane with moronic marksmen; this applies 100% of the time. The reserve need not be true. -> The nature of the MARKSMAN matters. An aggressive marksman will be good at poking, and generally know when he can all-in, irrespective of whether or not the support makes a play. A defensive Marksman will know how to last-hit well under turret, making the support essentially irrelevant (the turret supports, the turret helps last-hit, go afk plz Thresh) -> You're NEVER going to carry your lane, ever. Harsh reality, deal with it. Buff your marksman? Good job. Did he go in and make use of it? Yes - congrats. No? Well you're irrelevant kiddo. Support being a tool? Np, there is hope for competent Marksmen. -> Enjoyability and success have a direct correlation. Repeated failure, on your part or your marksman, who you're in a majority of the situations playing with FOR THE FIRST TIME leads to despondence (a fairly high chance of miscommunication for aforementioned reasons and heighten the chances for said failure). Analysis: As the last point elucidates, since there are SO MANY VARIABLES involved such as: -> Being queued with a CAPABLE marksman -> One who COMPLIMENTS your play-style, or rather - you complement theirs -> Enemy Marksman isn't better than yours because then you really can't do much (We'd all rather have an uber-competent enemy supp than Uzi v2.0) your enjoyability of your role is heavily dependent upon and influenced by your co-laner. The balance is tilted in favour of the marksman, as you need him MORE than he needs you. Ergo, your enjoyability and happiness depends on a stranger. Does not make a strong case for "enjoying" support as a role, in general. Still, "man is a rational animal" - basic principle economics does not apply, because man in general isn't. You may enjoy support for reasons known only to you. FYI, I dislike playing the role. Regards, The Logician[/quote] At your first point; -yes, it's solo queue. Do you know what this means? You have a higher number of opportunities in which you can punish enemy player mistakes. Do you notice a lack of synergy between the enemy ADC & Supp? Do you notice a small reaction time gap between both of them? Do you notice they have a hard time dealing with skillshots? Do you notice their large mastery at setting up engages? You need to be extremely analytical, hence why people consider it more stressful than other roles. Assuming you know these things you can easily punish your opponents whenever they do something out of habit. Your ad carry doesn't have to make use of it, you only need them to farm and not die. Actually, until you reach higher elo, being a support in solo q is an advantage. You don't see many premade bot lanes making nearly as many easily punishable mistakes. At your second point; As a capable support, ESPECIALLY in low elo you should either be able to achieve 2/3 of the damage your ap carry does, be able to achieve a level of health and resistances where you can easily engage together with your top laner/jungler OR be able to prevent any unfavorable engages or deaths that might happen. So yes, if you're playing Karma, Zyra or Morgana you should have enough ap to deal substantial amounts of damage, leaving no reason for the enemy team to ignore you - and if they do, you can easily melt their entire team. Nami or Janna can easily prevent any engages from the enemy team and keep your entire team alive, allowing you to pick your engages and never step in to a confrontation you didn't wish for. Thresh, Leona & Alistar have so much resistance steroids that they can disrupt the enemy team with taking very little damage in return, stopping their carries from doing damage, their bruisers from diving in to your team etc. ALL of these things help out so much that it's very hard for anyone to prove that supports can't carry games. At your third point; - That's part of being a support. If your marksman is passive you change your build path & playing style to compliment them. Same goes for the opposite situation. You can't play a support in solo queue if you don't want to adapt to the situation. At your fourth point; -If you can't carry your lane with a semi capable marksman then you're doing something wrong. If your marksman just doesn't live up to expectations, you can at least make the lane go even. If your marksman is stupid let them die, take the gold in between his re spawn timers and do what's expected of you later in the game. At your fifth point; -As a support, you NEED to be on top of things. Always have the big picture in mind, if the lane is going badly and it's your marksman's fault do what you can to keep yourself relevant later on in the game. If you strictly disagree with your marksman's decisions, let them know. If miscommunication problems arise, play your own game. You know what you have to do, you know when it's a good time to engage and when to ping him back. If he refuses to listen, it's his fault. You've still done your job. Your contribution being unnoticed or under appreciated is one thing, failing to contribute anything is another. If you are unable to appreciate what you're doing and how much you are contributing to your teams' victory, don't expect them to notice either. At your last and final point: - I enjoy support because I enjoy the ability to appreciate all the little things that help the game flow be in my favor. I enjoy being the backbone of my team, I enjoy contributing as much to the team as people who've had so much farm and kills while I've had nearly nothing. I like being pushed to my limits, forced to constantly adapt and figure out solutions for problems. It's exactly the reason why I continue to play and enjoy supportive classes in most other games. Support is only enjoyable if you dedicate your time to it and are able to appreciate your own deeds. Support mains know this quite well.[/quote]

[quote=Luther3000]@Logic Using a thesaurus to act elitist and insult people on the internet doesn't make you cool and it certainly doesn't make you right about things, it just makes you look like a condescending jerk. You do it in every single post I've seen you make and you should probably consider stopping. Bot lane is about 70/30 or 60/40 support/ADC, especially towards the start of laning. I'm not really sure how someone could believe contrary; all popular supports greatly outdamage ADCs in the early game while also providing CC and/or utility. Naturally this balance does swing more into the favour of the ADC as time passes in the game due to their hyperscaling with items. It's definitely pretty hard to do anything as a support if your ADC is awful but it's even worse if you're the ADC and your support is awful, you just have to hope you don't get zoned too badly and make plays/get lucky later in the game. If your argument is simply that laning with a random sucks, then yes I absolutely agree.[/quote]

[quote=utopus]Logic, Okay first things first, you didn't use pithy correctly in the sentence. That's really rustling my jimmies lol. More importantly, you're really building up your personality to be that of an elitist jerk. If that's the kind of attitude you want people on this site to know you by, then by all means keep doing what you are doing. In my experience though, that sort of thing makes it less fun for everyone to visit this site.[/quote]