By Twisted Treeline, Dominion, SR and Jungling
Jovy
<Admin>
<Admin>
So, you think I should delete my dominion, jungle and 3v3 chapter? I doubt it'll get any views with it only being a laning guide. Mostly because a lot of people doubt Sejuani can be a good laner. She is a great jungler, but I just don't prefer jungling. I like her in 3v3s, but again, I won't get many views if it's only a 3v3 guide. And dominion? Dominion guides aren't even considered as champion guides.
That's why I decided to make it a primarily SR lane guide with a few helpful chapters on other viable ways to play Sejuani.
That's why I decided to make it a primarily SR lane guide with a few helpful chapters on other viable ways to play Sejuani.
^Nah MissMaw, I never had a problem with you writing those different chapters. I was more annoyed that guides that deserved a higher ranking like Lugi's Nasus guide would never see top spot just because there were no filters in place that made things easier for people to locate said guides.
I'm thinking that allocating a guide to a lot of different categories is okay.
What I really want, what I have meant by all this talk is that a different (or at least upgraded) filtering program is needed.
Good luck with your Sejuani guide :)
I'm thinking that allocating a guide to a lot of different categories is okay.
What I really want, what I have meant by all this talk is that a different (or at least upgraded) filtering program is needed.
Good luck with your Sejuani guide :)
jhoijhoi wrote:
Whatever. If you guys can only think about your own gain
*Rolls eyes*
Not the case.
PsiGuard wrote:
No, you're giving writers of focused guides a better chance than writers of comprehensive ones.
I don't think that's fair.
And more simply put, eliminating the option to even have an effective comprehensive guide.
To be honest, this isn't even a real problem. It's imaginary.
My solo top Olaf guide, as previously stated, is lower rated than a jungle Olaf guide. This may surprise some people, I DON'T CARE if there are people with higher rated guides than mine, even in the category or whatnot that the guide was written for.
This isn't a competition, and not everyone has to have the #1 rated guide. It doesn't matter if your guide is #2 under another guide, and they are discussing entirely different roles being played. Who cares? Guide readers looking for a jungle guide will have no use for my guide. Players looking to solo top will have no use for the other guide. Eventually they'll keep it moving until they find something they were looking for.
The only benefit from this system is that a user can just click whatever he's looking for and it will pop up, but the problem is that the filter truly must include ALL guides pertaining to jungling, even if the section i four words long. At that point, what's the bother? No reason.
PsiGuard wrote:
I know of no one capable of writing a huge, comprehensive guide for every single map and role for a champion.
*Long blank stare...*
Is that... A challenge?
http://www.mobafire.com/league-of-legends/build/duffs-336706
Come hang out when I'm streaming! http://www.twitch.tv/dufftime
jhoijhoi wrote:
The fact that MobaFire doesn't allow for searches for "jungle guides", that the tag system doesn't work, that I have to Google Search a jungle guide, that I literally have to trawl through pages upon pages to find a Twisted Treeline guide, that it's near IMPOSSIBLE to find a JUNGLE TT guide...
^THIS is the problem.
This is the first legitimate thing I've read in regards to the subject.
If the author can choose where the guide will be represented, then I think that sounds fine, as it would improve the ease of searches done by users.
http://www.mobafire.com/league-of-legends/build/duffs-336706
Come hang out when I'm streaming! http://www.twitch.tv/dufftime
^I agreed with that idea long ago, lol. I would just like for guides to be able to be "categorised" so when people want a TT Jungle Udyr guide they will be able to find it immediately.
@jhoijhoi, did you start another thread about this yet? I'm just catching up now but didn't see another thread yet.
I definitely agree we need more and better filtering options. Your original suggestion jhoijhoi is something I've always liked the idea of - a "wizard" to help new members find guides. Answer a series of questions and it comes up with the right filter for you and shows the guides in a streamlined list.
Those that dislike this idea, is your issue mainly with the idea that these filters would be forced on the champion pages, therefore dividing your viewership? What if the filters were just there but off by default? So you land on champion page and get the regular list as you currently do, which you can then filter down if you want to see Jungle or Dominion specific guides? This could even be a simple drop down like we already have on some of the database pages.
My main issue with it is what a number of you have pointed out - if you allow authors to select multiple categories many will just select them all. If you restrict authors to one selection for each filter, they may get very frustrated when they want to write more comprehensive guides.
I'd love some more ideas on navigation and filtering. This is definitely an area that we can improve on, the tags system was meant to be a step in that direction but it just didn't turn out to be very useful.
I've also considered the option of actually adding MORE filters on the browse page, but hiding them by default. Giving a very basic set of filters to choose from (the most commonly used - champion, map, role, quality) and then an "advanced search" button that shows a bunch of more complicated filters (freshness, min vote count).
I definitely agree we need more and better filtering options. Your original suggestion jhoijhoi is something I've always liked the idea of - a "wizard" to help new members find guides. Answer a series of questions and it comes up with the right filter for you and shows the guides in a streamlined list.
Those that dislike this idea, is your issue mainly with the idea that these filters would be forced on the champion pages, therefore dividing your viewership? What if the filters were just there but off by default? So you land on champion page and get the regular list as you currently do, which you can then filter down if you want to see Jungle or Dominion specific guides? This could even be a simple drop down like we already have on some of the database pages.
My main issue with it is what a number of you have pointed out - if you allow authors to select multiple categories many will just select them all. If you restrict authors to one selection for each filter, they may get very frustrated when they want to write more comprehensive guides.
I'd love some more ideas on navigation and filtering. This is definitely an area that we can improve on, the tags system was meant to be a step in that direction but it just didn't turn out to be very useful.
I've also considered the option of actually adding MORE filters on the browse page, but hiding them by default. Giving a very basic set of filters to choose from (the most commonly used - champion, map, role, quality) and then an "advanced search" button that shows a bunch of more complicated filters (freshness, min vote count).
Matt, I would LOVE a "wizard", but I don't know how hard it'd be to implement. And then there's those guide authors who write sections for every map, jungle, lane, support, tank etc etc etc and they would be frustrated being forced into one category.
I think that the current filtering system is a little tricky to use.
The filter should be set to Score + Fresh automatically, instead of having to manually set it. Realistically newer members will want to use a build that is up to date and is highly rated. The fact that I look for Miss Fortune guides and get guides that were just released isn't a great system.
I just think the filters need to look different, or even be a wizard, like you said, so it's a sort of a 1, 2, 3 step process, as opposed to tinkering with filters.
What if Tags were categories? If every guide could only have 5 tags, that will mean only 5 categories they could be part of. So if someone has written a Summoner's Rift, support Ashe guide, they could tag:
Summoner's Rift
Support
Ranged
Or something.
Sigh, I'm rambling.
This is the best idea. Make the filtering really simple, set it at a default "correct/realistic" setting (score, freshness) and allow for an "advanced" search. Making people allocate their guides to specific categories will be hard though (possibly like when the Season Two masteries came out and people couldn't update their guide without allocating new mastery points).
I think that the current filtering system is a little tricky to use.
The filter should be set to Score + Fresh automatically, instead of having to manually set it. Realistically newer members will want to use a build that is up to date and is highly rated. The fact that I look for Miss Fortune guides and get guides that were just released isn't a great system.
I just think the filters need to look different, or even be a wizard, like you said, so it's a sort of a 1, 2, 3 step process, as opposed to tinkering with filters.
What if Tags were categories? If every guide could only have 5 tags, that will mean only 5 categories they could be part of. So if someone has written a Summoner's Rift, support Ashe guide, they could tag:
Summoner's Rift
Support
Ranged
Or something.
Sigh, I'm rambling.
Matt wrote:
I've also considered the option of actually adding MORE filters on the browse page, but hiding them by default. Giving a very basic set of filters to choose from (the most commonly used - champion, map, role, quality) and then an "advanced search" button that shows a bunch of more complicated filters (freshness, min vote count).
This is the best idea. Make the filtering really simple, set it at a default "correct/realistic" setting (score, freshness) and allow for an "advanced" search. Making people allocate their guides to specific categories will be hard though (possibly like when the Season Two masteries came out and people couldn't update their guide without allocating new mastery points).
We default the browse page to sort by date in order to give more chances to new guides to be seen. We could adjust it to filter by score by default to make things easier for readers but we may get complaints from authors.
There is an item under the builds and guides menu to view top rated guides, this defaults it to sort by score for members that are more familiar with the site. Of course the champion page also orders by score.
We had planned on using tags on the browse page to allow users to input whatever tags they want to filter by, so you could add a filter for guides with the "jungler" tag. We just never hammered out an easy way to manage this. Maybe it's time to go back to the tag system and add in some better controls to filter by tags on the browse (and other) pages?
This still doesn't prevent authors from just adding all the tags, other than the fact that they are limited to 5 total. However with 5 tags you should be able to hit all the key aspects of your guide.
Another thing I had considered was allowing tags beyond the 5 custom ones, by choosing from some pre-defined lists. So you can set 5 custom tags and then using some dropdowns you can add additional tags for map, role, game type, etc... However it might be better to just store that information separate of tags so we can do some more advanced filtering... Just have the issue of letting authors select multiple choices.
There is an item under the builds and guides menu to view top rated guides, this defaults it to sort by score for members that are more familiar with the site. Of course the champion page also orders by score.
We had planned on using tags on the browse page to allow users to input whatever tags they want to filter by, so you could add a filter for guides with the "jungler" tag. We just never hammered out an easy way to manage this. Maybe it's time to go back to the tag system and add in some better controls to filter by tags on the browse (and other) pages?
This still doesn't prevent authors from just adding all the tags, other than the fact that they are limited to 5 total. However with 5 tags you should be able to hit all the key aspects of your guide.
Another thing I had considered was allowing tags beyond the 5 custom ones, by choosing from some pre-defined lists. So you can set 5 custom tags and then using some dropdowns you can add additional tags for map, role, game type, etc... However it might be better to just store that information separate of tags so we can do some more advanced filtering... Just have the issue of letting authors select multiple choices.
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Psi is arguing for the guidemakers an
jhoi arguing for the ease of use