A little Shen info

[quote=kmododragonNM][quote=DuffTime] Explain why. Simply stating it like a fact means nothing to me. [/quote] Shen is not a farmer or a killer, which means money isn't your strong suit. It takes a while to get enough to buy Warmog's. Usually, since it [i]is[/i] good, I get it as my very last item, after getting Giant's Belt x2. Then, it is a good health buff to have in the endgame.[/quote]

[quote=PsiGuard]I never get warmog's on Shen unless the opposing team has no health shredding candidates (weak AP carry and/or no AS-based champions). It's a very expensive item and provides no offensive stats and no resistances. I find my Shen build difficult enough to get going as it is. Getting warmog's just puts me behind even more. Late game I wouldn't bother with it. A stronger survivability item or something with more utility would be a better option in my eyes.[/quote]

[quote=DuffTime]Granted, not an offensive item, however HP is better than resistances in most games as a survivability stat. His passive does scale with Bonus HP, so it does give you some offense, but that's not why you would buy it. Quite frankly it's the best survivability item in the game, on any champion. GA is comparable, but once you have resistances to complement Warmogg's, it becomes the better survivability item again. It you're jungling Shen, You can get a Sunfire and suddenly stacking/farming the Warmogg's is easy. Or if you're the tank, Warmogg's / GA / Aegis is an instant tank. What items would you suggest in it's place? Nothing can compare in terms of survivability, so there needs to be another reason.[/quote]

[quote=kmododragonNM][quote=DuffTime] Granted, not an offensive item, however HP is better than resistances in most games as a survivability stat. His passive does scale with Bonus HP, so it does give you some offense, but that's not why you would buy it. Quite frankly it's the best survivability item in the game, on any champion. GA is comparable, but once you have resistances to complement Warmogg's, it becomes the better survivability item again. It you're jungling Shen, You can get a Sunfire and suddenly stacking/farming the Warmogg's is easy. Or if you're the tank, Warmogg's / GA / Aegis is an instant tank. What items would you suggest in it's place? Nothing can compare in terms of survivability, so there needs to be another reason. [/quote] First off, jungling Shen is not a good idea. Tanks need to be involved in the battle to have any effectiveness. I know there is an argument that practically any character could jungle, but Shen needs to be in the lanes. AotL/Sunfire cape is a good combination to have; the damage to nearby enemies plus the boosts to your own team are a nice extra. As I said, Warmogg's is fine with me. I love it. But not unless it is one of the last items in my build. Trying to get that much money takes a little bit, downgrading your effectiveness in mid game. If you are saving, you aren't getting the items that you need right then and there. If you can get the money, I got no argument. Usually I add it to my builds at the end of the game anyway. Shen is one of the best tank characters because of his ability, if you are skilled enough and know your tanking strategy well, to get items like this. He doesn't have to focus on Mana-regen items or the like, giving him much more possibility for survivability items like Warmogg's. I think that my earlier statements were worded a little hastily. I didn't take much time to consider what I was writing. The truth is, I have no qualms about getting a load of armor, health and health regen items for my tank builds (Although I like to throw some offensive items in there too- maybe a sheen if I think I have room). But I dislike the ability of people focusing a lot of their attention on getting Warmogg's. you should be focusing on getting the right blend of items to carry you thru the early-mid-late game. Tank builds have a nice delicate blend that won't work if you get nothing but health or survivability items. Warmogg's is admittedly the best survivability item, but not the best tank item. And it all depends on your opponents as well, usually I don't get it if we're getting blown away by Mages and Casters. I take into account the fact that you have to work for a while to get the health/regen bonuses, which are already included in statistics [url=http://www.mobafire.com/league-of-legends/item/warmogs-armor-65]as shown here[/url]. In it's place, depending on the situation, I might get [url=http://www.mobafire.com/league-of-legends/items]Thornmail or Randuin's Omen[/url]. Both are nice armor items, Thornmail I use if our opponents are mostly brawlers. So I agree with you. WMG's armor is a great tank item. But not the best. All tank items are situational, which makes tank builds the most difficult to figure, in my opinion.[/quote]

[quote=Tharcide]"Tanks need to be involved in the battle to have any effectiveness." Any good jungler will constantly be in fights. offtanks make the best junglers anyway[/quote]

[quote=DuffTime]WMG's is the best survivability item. WMG's is the only item I will always eventually build on every full tank. Also, this guy is right, there's various examples of full tanks who are great junglers. Amumu and Cho come to mind. Shen does not need to be in a lane. He's jungle capable and not being in a lane allows his to use his ult at any second and not jeopardize a lane. He's also lane capable. Understanding of why this or why that is beneficial.[/quote]

[quote=Beeswarm17][quote=DuffTime] Shen does not need to be in a lane. He's jungle capable and not being in a lane allows his to use his ult at any second and not jeopardize a lane. He's also lane capable. Understanding of why this or why that is beneficial. [/quote] ^ Exactly. Shen can instantly teleport to any fight on the map. Why worry about whether you're always there for fights?[/quote]

[quote=omagma][quote=DuffTime] WMG's is the best survivability item. WMG's is the only item I will always eventually build on every full tank. Also, this guy is right, there's various examples of full tanks who are great junglers. Amumu comes to mind. Shen does not need to be in a lane. He's jungle capable and not being in a lane allows his to use his ult at any second and not jeopardize a lane. He's also lane capable. Understanding of why this or why that is beneficial. [/quote] Fixed[/quote]

[quote=PsiGuard]Have you even tried him in jungle? You say that getting enough farm for warmog's is an issue. There's plenty of farm available in the jungle, especially since you can jungle indefinitely after 6 without losing map presence (not that you should, necessarily). I hate playing Shen in a duo lane because I end up relying on a HoG to give me enough income to get tank items. He's also not the greatest support. Solo top Shen is also pretty mediocre. Aggressive solo tops will counter him, and passive ones will scale better into late game. He's not a horrible solo laner, but he's far from the best. Shen has extremely high sustain in the jungle, especially if you get [[Wriggle's lantern]]. After your initial route, your high level of [[Vorpal Blade]] makes your sustain rival that of the best junglers. The only reason I don't jungle Shen on a regular basis is because I own a lot of other junglers as well. I love Shen, but I really don't see why I should pick him instead of a stronger jungler, support or solo top lane. @Duff: To be honest, I've only played maybe 10 games with Shen since his last buff (9/10 were jungle). I'll have to try that sunfire->warmog's strategy some time, as it does seem like it would benefit your farming quite a bit, especially if you're covering or pushing a lane.[/quote]

[quote=Wayne3100]@ omagma Cho is a great jungler, you must be trolling... :|[/quote]