Evelynn Theorycrafting

[quote=NicknameMy]What do you think about the new [[evelynn]] and how would you build her? I found one interesting quote at [url]http://www.reignofgaming.net/tier-lists/jungle-tier-list/21104-jungle-tier-list-zyra-era#c11[/url]: [quote]I've had a lot of success snowballing hard with Eve. A good 9 out of 10 games I jungle her turn in my favor quickly. She is a jungler that needs runes and items to compensate her shortcomings though. I personally use full ad marks&quints with the typical armor and mr per level. I take 21/9/0 with her to get the extra hp and defenses (I use my Riven/Shyv masteries, so instead of ad per level and the slight crit boost tied to it, I sink into the cdr/mag pen; but the rest is pure and typical AD). Then cloth5 to start. This gives her 70 ad to start with and a bit over 50 defense depending on how you spec'd out the 9 in defensive tree. I push through jungle surprisingly quickly with a soft leash on blue to start. Making it to wraiths the second time around before they even spawn up and hitting level 4 on said second spawn. Another noob mistake I've seen a lot of pisspoor Eves make is leveling Q first. While it's good to grab your first point in Q at level 1, it's bad to focus it for maxing there after. Leveling it only increases its base damage. No cd change, no procs that get better with level... just a base damage increase and a pitiful one at that (also a nasty increase on the mana consumption to boot). Maxing her E first is the way to go. It gives her more base damage while also giving her a scarier and scarier attack speed proc. Not to mention it doubles up your attack which is nice considering I build her AD anyhow. The E proc makes jungling a breeze while also securing ganks. Now success with her does require a competent team. One that pays attention to your cues and takes advantage of it. A lot of my really successful snowballs with her have happened because my teammates baited fights to force position while I snuck in and sandwiched their target. And because of this tactic, I can hold onto my W for securing kills that try to flee or for getting out of sticky situations. Also running exhaust helps significantly. Flash is virtually useless on her due to her W. I just see no point having it if I can easily escape most bad situations. Another tip I can give is don't bother with mobility boots. Use swiftness instead. The extra speed in fights is worth more than being able to run into a lane quicker. Also the whole W to gank tactic causes the mobility boots to plummet to rank 2 since it counts as being in a fight when you hit W. I find myself rarely if ever out of combat long enough to make use of them. The only time they even proc for me is when I wait long enough to stealth out before jumping on a gank. AD is also the way to go with her. The ONLY hybrid item worth considering is hextech since it substantially increases your survivability due to ability spamming when ganking and even when fleeing and baiting; plus the cast on it is halarious good times. I typically get to level 4 with a fair amount of hp left over and can gank a lane or two. Depending on the outcome, I can usually grab rank 1 boots, upgrade my cloth to madreds razor, and if I got a kill or two instead of assists I grab up vamp scepter. After that I finish boots and build sheen then base my next choices based on how the games going, enemy team comp and the like. My build is in no particular order Swiftness Boots, Trinity Force, Infinity Edge, Madreds Bloodrazer, Youmoos Ghostblade, Hextech Gunblade. If I feel comfortable enough with how things are going, I grab the gold per on youmoos then rush IE. If ganks have been scary close, I focus hextech instead. If the enemy team is going real tanky, I focus madreds. All in all, I haven't full built yet due to constant surrenders at 20s and quick victories. Most my snowballs have been legendary streaks with 0 to 1 death with the 1 death being something stupid like counterjungling at 1:40 in or a first gank that ended with me being focused then ignited as the target went down. The youmoos is debatable but I like having it incase someone rushes lots of armor, plus its proc is kinda halarious as Eve. But anyhow, you are dead on with her ult and stealth which are being lowered soon. I honestly have had more success with Eve than a lot of the tier 2s and several of the tier 1s. I think you should give her a second chance with the tidbits I've given. Not saying you are wrong in your rating of her, just think you haven't seen many decent Eves (in the same sense that you haven't seen many decent Amumus til recently), especially with how saturated with bad Eves the game was the week leading up to Zyra's unlock. A lot of the mobafire/lolpro/etc guides are laughable when it comes to jungle Eve and a lot of players seem to follow them religiously to the very bitter end.[/quote] What do you think how to play her? And especially where to play her? I would trade out [[madred's bloodrazor]] with [[warmog's armor]] for the build in the quote, but otherwise it seems fine.[/quote]

[quote=InfHaRM]As an eve player after her stun got taken away, and now with her rework, i feel like bloodrazer is a bloodsink on evelynn and many other champions. As eve is primarily AD scalings and you've already invested into a triforce, if you have 3.8k gold sitting around buy a blood thirster instead of you're that far ahead.[/quote]

[quote=NicknameMy]I just thought about the item build in the quote, well IE+Triforce+MBR+Hextech is waay to expansive. A cheaper version of this would be BT+WotA+Triforce+Wit's and it would reach the same effect.[/quote]

[quote=tehAsian]There's already a thread on Eve Theorycrafting :P Annnyway, I build her like a tanky assassin, and max E first. [[wriggle's lantern]] [[mercury's treads]] [[avarice blade]] + [[philosopher's stone]] for income [[youmuu's ghostblade]] [[trinity force]] [[maw of malmortius]] or [[wit's end]] [[randuin's omen]] Sell wriggles, get [[hextech gunblade]]. The build lets me jungle insanely quickly with the Wriggles proc and lets me do a ton of burst onto the people I gank. Also, YGB, randuins, and gunblade all let me stick onto targets disgustingly well. The raw resistances make me super tanky through my ultimate, so I actually live while killing their carries.[/quote]

[quote=NicknameMy]Why [[philosopher's stone]] and not [[heart of gold]]?[/quote]

[quote=tehAsian]I meant [[heart of gold]] :P My bad.[/quote]

[quote=Chaotic Bliss]Im an Eve player, and I do so enjoy her before the remake. I think the remake, though an attemp to make her viable, she was nerfed yet again. She has been thought of as 'low tier' and 'unviable' for a long time by many people. Than enough of the community complained about her stun and it was taken away from her. Thus making her less viable and lower tier, and making her one of the least viable champs in the game. Assuming you didnt have the right team to play with her. I think that the remake was a nerf for many reasons, thought it was an improvement from what she was. 1. I think that the alert range is too big for a melee with no gap closing ability. This is a nerf, IMO, because as a melee assassin a gap closing ability means getting in range before being engaged. With the range being so great, she can be attacked before she gets in range, thus losing the advantage she gets from having stealth. Lets say [[dark frenzy]] were similar to [[cutthroat]], used by [[talon]], the alert range wouldnt be an issue. She could be seen, but she will be able to engage and not take as much dmg before getting to into melee range and do what she does. So what Im saying is this. The alert range in which she can be seen too great since she doesnt have a gap closing ability of any kind. A dash like [[bladesurge]], or gap closer like [[shunpo]] or [[leap strike]]. The lack of a Gap Closer makes her less viable as an assassin, and the lack of the gap closer with the alert range as big as it is, makes her even less of an assassin. 2. I think that [[Dark frenzy]] shouldnt break her stealth. With her lack of a gap closer, she must use it to get closer to the target. If one is to use this before getting into range to [[ravage]] or [[hate spike]], Eve loses her stealthy advantage even more so than if she was seen by the alert range. I think that if [[dark frenzy]] didnt break her stealth, she would have something that would increase her viability as an assassin. But than again, if she had a dash, it wouldnt be an issue. Now that I gave my explanation of what I think are the Cons, I will farther express my idea of solutions. 1. I think that if the range is going to as great as it is, if she is standing next to a wall at its farthest range it is lane wide, she should have a dash of some kind to compensate. With the range being do big, ranged carries and other targets can engage her before she can reach them. A dash would help her commit to these ranged carries. 2. If she doesnt get a dash or gap closer, than I think that the alert range should be smaller, about the size of her ult AoE. This would give her a chance to get close. She is a Melee assassin after all, yes? Anyway, now for my view of what does make her better. 1. Her ult is a HUGE improvement over what it was. She is able to use it as an initiating tool and its a powerful opener in team fights. Extremely better than what it use to be. 2. [[Hate Spike]] mechanics are much better now. She has some kind of farming tool now, which she didnt really have at the start. Overall, I think that though her kit has improved, she still hasnt gotten out of that low tier place she has always been. Lack of a gap closer puts all other assassins ahead of her. Being forced to turret hug or hide in the brush is what she has been reduced to due to the alert range being so big. But than again, [[vision ward]]and [[oracle's elixir]] are always the best counter to Eve and always will be.[/quote]

[quote=NicknameMy]I think she also needs a form of cc on a normal spell, because without this, ganking is actually awful. It is basically even worse than ganking with Master Yi or WW pre 6.[/quote]

[quote=RaNuD]Chaotic Bliss for president. All he said, all of it, is the pure truth.[/quote]

[quote=Chaotic Bliss][quote=RaNuD] Chaotic Bliss for president. All he said, all of it, is the pure truth. [/quote] I thank you for your comment. And I was only speaking from my time with Eve. When she had her stun she was more viable and had some kind of lane presence. I do think that I will copy and paste this to the official forums... Assuming that no one else already has.[/quote]