Ryze Counters

[quote=Klausenheim]Quick question derived from my lack of Ryze knowledge: Since Ryze's [[Rune Prison]] doesn't silence, can [[Maokai]] us [[Twisted Advance]] to get out of it / turn the tables and stun Ryze? If so, I feel like he is a great counter to Ryze. He has awesome ranged harass with [[Sapling Toss]] and good sustain with his passive. And mid/late game Mao is just awesome to have on your team with his CC and tankiness.[/quote]

[quote=Searz]Binds restrict users from moving by ANY means. That prohibits you from using spells that move you.[/quote]

[quote=Lugignaf][quote=Searz] Binds restrict users from moving by ANY means. That prohibits you from using spells that move you. [/quote] It also disable all spells with a [i]possibility[/i] of moving you such as Lee's W. Can't even be selfcast.[/quote]

[quote=Klausenheim]Gotcha. Well, cancel that then. I'm sure Mao could still do OK, but that would've been downright fantastic.[/quote]

[quote=Vitigam]Agreed, [[leblanck]] is a good counter to [[ryze]].[/quote]

[quote=BarbJ][quote=Jpikachu1999]Lux, Morgana, Talon, Ahri, Cassiopeia[/quote] Ryze is actually used in tournament level play to beat Morgana in the lane phase. Ryze > Morgana. Since Lux does about the same thing as Morgana, she would also have a poor laning phase. Talon is a burst caster, Ryze is a dps caster. Once your silence runs out, Ryze will snare you, and hurt you. Since he's building tanky, you're going to lose out on trades. He also has built in sustain with his ult, so he'll fair better over time than you will. Though the true damage from Ahri does hurt, that's only if you manage to hit him with the return of your Q. I'd say even, rather than counter. You know who people use to counter Cass in lane? It's Galio. Like Galio, Ryze builds lots of MR. She will have a hard time. I'm confused why you listed her at all- even you said it was not a counter, simply skill based, roughly even lane.[/quote]

[quote=Luther3000]Ryze doesn't really counter Morgana anywhere near as much as people think. I mean sure, he doesn't lose to her but he doesn't exactly dominate her and stop her from farming either. Cass can 100% fuck Ryze over early game. There are several key differences between Galio and Ryze, most notably Galio has incredible wave clearing whereas Ryze has terrible wave clearing unless he uses his ult. Galio's W also means he actually heals when Cass poisons him whereas Ryze has no defence from her incredible damage early. Galio has longer range on his spells too.[/quote]

[quote=PsiGuard][quote=BarbJ] Since Lux does about the same thing as Morgana, she would also have a poor laning phase. Though the true damage from Ahri does hurt, that's only if you manage to hit him with the return of your Q. I'd say even, rather than counter. You know who people use to counter Cass in lane? It's Galio. Like Galio, Ryze builds lots of MR. She will have a hard time. I'm confused why you listed her at all- even you said it was not a counter, simply skill based, roughly even lane. [/quote] Mostly right, but a couple possible corrections. Lux is a lot closer to Xerath (who is a Ryze counter) than Morg when it comes to nuke potential. Lux and Xerath both have a built-in CC and a long range nuke that they can use from an annoyingly safe distance. Morgana is more like Kennen, who needs to chain up disables and stick close to the target in order to combo. Therefore Lux's nuke outranges Ryze, while Morgana's does not. I'm pretty sure Ryze does better than just going even with Ahri. The point of Ahri's ultimate when used against other casters (besides obvious chase/escape scenarios) is to make her difficult to target. Considering ALL of Ryze's abilities are targeted and he has a snare (which stops her ult from casting), he has an ideal kit for dealing with her. You might be able to win the lane as Ahri, but concerning the matchup I'd say Ryze wins. Cass vs Ryze lane could go either way I suppose, but I think Cass' harass, mobility and DPS give her an edge in that matchup. Ryze does roughly the same thing, but he trades some of his damage for defense and sustain, and his CC is soft, while Cass' ult can stun if cast at the right time (shouldn't be hard, Ryze always faces his target when comboing). Generally Ryze can beat anyone who'll stay within range, but Cass might be able to surpass his DPS in a 1v1. More to the point, [[Noxious Blast]] is simply a stronger and safer harass than Ryze's short range spells, so he should be at a health disadvantage by the time the two trade nukes. @Luther: Nobody stops Morg from farming :P, but when a champion can pretty much destroy her without ever being threatened in a 1v1, I'd call that a counter. Morg's nuke is really strong against squishy champions that she can keep in range, especially ones that rely on a blockable spell. I think Ryze gets way too tanky for Morg to deal with. After her combo, Ryze should be able to clean her up.[/quote]

[quote=Lugignaf][quote=Klausenheim] Gotcha. Well, cancel that then. I'm sure Mao could still do OK, but that would've been downright fantastic. [/quote] Something I completely forgot. Yes your passive will be a great tool for Countering him. Yes Saplings are a great harassing move. [b]If you time it right[/b] you can avoid all damage from Ryze's Q with [[Twisted advance]] as it makes you untargetable. If you let it "hit you" while you're a pile of energy, you will take no damage. It'll also work like that with AoE like [[Absolute zero]] or [[requiem]].[/quote]

[quote=BarbJ][quote=PsiGuard]Lux is a lot closer to Xerath (who is a Ryze counter) than Morg [/quote] I was just using what he said, that Lux is the same as Morgana. In that case, where Morgana = Lux, and Ryze > Morgana, Ryze is also > Lux. I don't see a lot of Morgana in my level of play to know enough about her personally, and conversely, I don't see any Lux in high level stream or tournament play. [quote=Luther3000]There are several key differences between Galio and Ryze[/quote] I didn't say they were the same. I said they both build MR. MR stops damage. Therefore, Cass will not counter Ryze. Even if she manages to hit all her spells, she'll be doing far less damage than she should against other mids. I didn't say that Ryze counters Cass like Galio does, but he will fair better than other mids.[/quote]