Joev, I doubt you guys intended to release Prime "unfinished". That's the most ridiculous, cost inefficient, bumbling idea I've ever heard. No one releases a payment/subscription service and then tacks on, "By the way, this isn't done! We're going to change it up soon. Don't worry about that though. Still buy it. It's fine." While accepting feedback from the community is great, my point was that it would have been a tonne more productive if the devs weren't backpedaling to change things they wouldn't have done in the first place had the actual community beta tested it. I feel like this is a thing MobaFire does more often nowadays. I remember when ideas were floated in the vet forum first, which gave being a vet meaning - we saw things before they were implemented and our ideas helped shape the final product, if only by a tiny bit.
Anyway. Done bun can’t be undone.
I think there needs to be a video of the things Prime gives, and also a video of how Commend works. To be very honest, the threads with the pictures are a little confusing and not really easy to follow. I can't get a feel of what is supposed to be happening, I have to concentrate to read. I feel as if a video that walks you through the motions would be better at conveying the systems.
Edit: Another visual suggestion... the gold border around our avatars. As this is a League site first and foremost, the gold border just makes me think that every Prime member is gold elo. Which I'm sure wasn't the intent. On guide previews, the gold border = gold elo, so I can see people confusing Prime with being gold elo. I think it'd make more sense for the border to be flame colours, like a gradient from red to yellow.
Anyway. Done bun can’t be undone.
I think there needs to be a video of the things Prime gives, and also a video of how Commend works. To be very honest, the threads with the pictures are a little confusing and not really easy to follow. I can't get a feel of what is supposed to be happening, I have to concentrate to read. I feel as if a video that walks you through the motions would be better at conveying the systems.
Edit: Another visual suggestion... the gold border around our avatars. As this is a League site first and foremost, the gold border just makes me think that every Prime member is gold elo. Which I'm sure wasn't the intent. On guide previews, the gold border = gold elo, so I can see people confusing Prime with being gold elo. I think it'd make more sense for the border to be flame colours, like a gradient from red to yellow.
^
Psi, I'm not upset at you or wayne, since afterall, if you two were given permission to disclose this kind of thing on the vet forums, you would have done so and we wouldn't be having the conversation that we're having now.
I appreciate what the devs are doing, but if they're saying that they're developing some service for the community, then it's probably best to check with the vets and long time members. Afterall, only the community knows what the community values.
I've already expressed my feedback on the MF:Prime subforum and earlier in this thread:
The fact that people are spending their own money to support the website is a statement in it of itself. It'll be hard to get people tobuy commendations support MOBAfire easily when all they can think of is that they could spend their money for one lousy commendation, or buy a breakfast burrito from their favorite diner
Psi, I'm not upset at you or wayne, since afterall, if you two were given permission to disclose this kind of thing on the vet forums, you would have done so and we wouldn't be having the conversation that we're having now.
I appreciate what the devs are doing, but if they're saying that they're developing some service for the community, then it's probably best to check with the vets and long time members. Afterall, only the community knows what the community values.
I've already expressed my feedback on the MF:Prime subforum and earlier in this thread:
The fact that people are spending their own money to support the website is a statement in it of itself. It'll be hard to get people to
If I helped you out, be sure to throw me a +Rep!
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My Soraka Guide | My Review Service
Thanks for the sig, MissMaw!
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My Soraka Guide | My Review Service
Thanks for the sig, MissMaw!
Thanks for your responses guys, we really appreciate you taking the time to share your thoughts.
It sounds more like we have differing opinions on what this means, but just to make sure we're not misunderstanding each other, I'll clarify what I said a bit. I would say that Prime is a complete, but ongoing project, rather like a champion guide. There's a difference between a complete and incomplete guide; a complete guide needs enough structure and content to be useful right away when it's published, but it can still be developed further after that point. I wouldn't say that Prime is incomplete. However, there's always development, changes and improvements that can happen over time, which can come about in part thanks to the feedback you guys can provide.
Hadn't thought of that; I can see they're very similar. I'll bring it up and see if there's anything we can do to distinguish it further from rank.
Could you expand on this point a bit, particularly the italicized part? Are you saying that the Prime subscription is enough to ask and commendations should be given out for free or for much cheaper or something? Sorry if I missed an earlier comment explaining this part (I checked the Prime forums and your comment didn't seem related).
jhoijhoi wrote:
Joev, I doubt you guys intended to release Prime "unfinished". That's the most ridiculous, cost inefficient, bumbling idea I've ever heard. No one releases a payment/subscription service and then tacks on, "By the way, this isn't done! We're going to change it up soon. Don't worry about that though. Still buy it. It's fine."
It sounds more like we have differing opinions on what this means, but just to make sure we're not misunderstanding each other, I'll clarify what I said a bit. I would say that Prime is a complete, but ongoing project, rather like a champion guide. There's a difference between a complete and incomplete guide; a complete guide needs enough structure and content to be useful right away when it's published, but it can still be developed further after that point. I wouldn't say that Prime is incomplete. However, there's always development, changes and improvements that can happen over time, which can come about in part thanks to the feedback you guys can provide.
jhoijhoi wrote:
On guide previews, the gold border = gold elo, so I can see people confusing Prime with being gold elo.
Hadn't thought of that; I can see they're very similar. I'll bring it up and see if there's anything we can do to distinguish it further from rank.
utopus wrote:
I've already expressed my feedback on the MF:Prime subforum and earlier in this thread:
The fact that people are spending their own money to support the website is a statement in it of itself. It'll be hard to get people to buy commendations support MOBAfire easily when all they can think of is that they could spend their money for one lousy commendation, or buy a breakfast burrito from their favorite diner
The fact that people are spending their own money to support the website is a statement in it of itself. It'll be hard to get people to buy commendations support MOBAfire easily when all they can think of is that they could spend their money for one lousy commendation, or buy a breakfast burrito from their favorite diner
Could you expand on this point a bit, particularly the italicized part? Are you saying that the Prime subscription is enough to ask and commendations should be given out for free or for much cheaper or something? Sorry if I missed an earlier comment explaining this part (I checked the Prime forums and your comment didn't seem related).
Thanks to Nyoike for the sig!
Yes hello its me. If you don't remember me then that's good, and if you do remember me then you can probably figure out why I'm here. On with it.
Take a long look at that image. I'll run you through it from top to bottom.
Paying for an ad free experience is something a lot of people are willing to put in for, not because they need or want it, but because it feels like they are being rewarded for contributing. If you told me I could pay a buck or two a month to remove ads from a site I regularly visit, that's something I'd seriously consider.
Commendations are very straight forward but not particularly appealing. For a start, anyone can get them [with money] and in this context (and the context of the initial post) it isn't clear what value of commendations you get. If standard users can get commendations, why should a prime user care that they are getting more? Maybe if you had a limit for commendations per year as to not bog the site down in another way to vote on guides it would have more of an impact. But +1 is pretty empty in its current context. Also if it looks like I've misunderstood commendations, then I guess they're not so straight forward.
Stream exposure is the one that worries me. Just everything about it. Okay, so let's just look at it (+rep for whoever can figure out which guide it is).
This does not leap out at me, and maybe you'll have the same problem when you find the guide it was from. It is small and insignificant compared to the image and title of the guide, both of which come below it and are more colourful. Then I have to ask, is being minimized default? In the even that it is, you are going to draw a smaller crowd of viewers. They might just look over it. Not minimized? Anyone there just to look at a guide before their game doesn't want to see it. They have their own game to focus on and an auto-playing twitch video is a distraction that will drive people away.
On top of that, the people who will receive the most exposure are people who stream 8 hours a day and have top guides. So, y'know, the pro players. And hey maybe they will want to put the money in for a month or a year just to see if it affects their viewership, but you have to ask; is this in the best interest of the users of the site? And I don't mean the guide makers, but the guide readers. They are a large part of your audience.
Signature and comment control is one of those double edged swords. In a perfect world mature users would use it to clean up inflammatory posts. But let's face it, even some reasonable discussions about item viability and so on sometimes explode into inflammatory posts while still being on topic. Some personalities will use this as an excuse to clear out any criticism and keep a pristine guide. However, since it doesn't affect votes, they'll only be damaging themselves. One question, how does it interact with 'Must comment to vote'?
Sprucing up your avatar and profile could be cool, but I think you'd need to give people a lot more creative room. I don't know how much it let's you mess around but I know some people go nuts with that stuff, add big backgrounds, mess with the borders etc. Hey! Maybe you can put your embed stream here too.
Okay now 'choose your prime plan'.
Why the hell is the MIDDLE option highlighted? Economics 101, you want people to get the BIG one, so highlight the BIG one. The first thing I see is '6 MONTHS, $17.99' and then I look to the left and see how ****ty one month is for price in comparison because I read left to right, then I see this other one to the other side that my brain automatically assumes is also worse because its the last thing they wanted me to see. Seriously, haven't done the 2 seconds of math to figure out which is most cost effective and my brain is automatically assuming 29.99 for 12 months is less valuable than 17.99 for 6.
**** there goes the maths.
I'm gonna be frank. The layout reminds me of those dodgy download sites advertising faster speeds for premium users. And with just four features, some of which aren't particularly huge improvements, I wouldn't put a price tag so high. You did such a good job on the page before that one with the big subtle arrow and you got them already to click on 'Get Mobafire Prime!'. Why do you need to list the differences at that point? Why is it when I go to the http://www.mobafire.com/prime page and click on '6 months' does it take me to another page and not just sign me up right then and ****ing there? I clicked it dammit! Don't make me click it again on another page! That way you can just have the 'UPGRADE TO PRIME' buttons scroll you to the top or bottom of the page.
So I didn't want to be entirely negative, so I decided to see what features I could suggest to add to the site.
First thing is some sort of statistics tracking that allows guide users to tailor their guides better. Unfortunately all I can think of for statistics is hits per day and demographics, information they can't really utilize. But it would be nice to have more information. Every thing you do to help improve the making and presenting guides feeds back into helping mobafire itself.
A mobafire app might be a cool addition. One that pings or highlights when you have new comments on your guide or PM's. Something to give people the chance to work on mobafire while away from your machine. With how big iphones and ipads are these days you could reach a much greater audience.
I feel like some sort of bookmarking tool for guides, comments and threads would be useful. Maybe it shows them on your profile (for you only)? Likewise guestbook and friends list couldn't hurt.
Rainbow colour overlay for your avatar, or possibly a rainbow arching over/around it. Everybody loves rainbows. Rainbows > gold.
Well, anyone, that was my piece of mind.
PS: Seriously though, you have three arrows, one in the background, one framing the features and one out of gold all pointing to your 'Buy' button. Nicely done. I'd be honestly surprised if you told me you did that in house without any marketing experience.
Edit: Having thought about the pricing, the year and 6 month price seem to be pretty good (2.50 and 3 dollars a month respectively). But the $10 for 1 month is silly. I'd recommend halving it.
Take a long look at that image. I'll run you through it from top to bottom.Paying for an ad free experience is something a lot of people are willing to put in for, not because they need or want it, but because it feels like they are being rewarded for contributing. If you told me I could pay a buck or two a month to remove ads from a site I regularly visit, that's something I'd seriously consider.
Commendations are very straight forward but not particularly appealing. For a start, anyone can get them [with money] and in this context (and the context of the initial post) it isn't clear what value of commendations you get. If standard users can get commendations, why should a prime user care that they are getting more? Maybe if you had a limit for commendations per year as to not bog the site down in another way to vote on guides it would have more of an impact. But +1 is pretty empty in its current context. Also if it looks like I've misunderstood commendations, then I guess they're not so straight forward.
Stream exposure is the one that worries me. Just everything about it. Okay, so let's just look at it (+rep for whoever can figure out which guide it is).
This does not leap out at me, and maybe you'll have the same problem when you find the guide it was from. It is small and insignificant compared to the image and title of the guide, both of which come below it and are more colourful. Then I have to ask, is being minimized default? In the even that it is, you are going to draw a smaller crowd of viewers. They might just look over it. Not minimized? Anyone there just to look at a guide before their game doesn't want to see it. They have their own game to focus on and an auto-playing twitch video is a distraction that will drive people away.
On top of that, the people who will receive the most exposure are people who stream 8 hours a day and have top guides. So, y'know, the pro players. And hey maybe they will want to put the money in for a month or a year just to see if it affects their viewership, but you have to ask; is this in the best interest of the users of the site? And I don't mean the guide makers, but the guide readers. They are a large part of your audience.
Signature and comment control is one of those double edged swords. In a perfect world mature users would use it to clean up inflammatory posts. But let's face it, even some reasonable discussions about item viability and so on sometimes explode into inflammatory posts while still being on topic. Some personalities will use this as an excuse to clear out any criticism and keep a pristine guide. However, since it doesn't affect votes, they'll only be damaging themselves. One question, how does it interact with 'Must comment to vote'?
Sprucing up your avatar and profile could be cool, but I think you'd need to give people a lot more creative room. I don't know how much it let's you mess around but I know some people go nuts with that stuff, add big backgrounds, mess with the borders etc. Hey! Maybe you can put your embed stream here too.
Okay now 'choose your prime plan'.
Why the hell is the MIDDLE option highlighted? Economics 101, you want people to get the BIG one, so highlight the BIG one. The first thing I see is '6 MONTHS, $17.99' and then I look to the left and see how ****ty one month is for price in comparison because I read left to right, then I see this other one to the other side that my brain automatically assumes is also worse because its the last thing they wanted me to see. Seriously, haven't done the 2 seconds of math to figure out which is most cost effective and my brain is automatically assuming 29.99 for 12 months is less valuable than 17.99 for 6.
**** there goes the maths.
I'm gonna be frank. The layout reminds me of those dodgy download sites advertising faster speeds for premium users. And with just four features, some of which aren't particularly huge improvements, I wouldn't put a price tag so high. You did such a good job on the page before that one with the big subtle arrow and you got them already to click on 'Get Mobafire Prime!'. Why do you need to list the differences at that point? Why is it when I go to the http://www.mobafire.com/prime page and click on '6 months' does it take me to another page and not just sign me up right then and ****ing there? I clicked it dammit! Don't make me click it again on another page! That way you can just have the 'UPGRADE TO PRIME' buttons scroll you to the top or bottom of the page.
So I didn't want to be entirely negative, so I decided to see what features I could suggest to add to the site.
First thing is some sort of statistics tracking that allows guide users to tailor their guides better. Unfortunately all I can think of for statistics is hits per day and demographics, information they can't really utilize. But it would be nice to have more information. Every thing you do to help improve the making and presenting guides feeds back into helping mobafire itself.
A mobafire app might be a cool addition. One that pings or highlights when you have new comments on your guide or PM's. Something to give people the chance to work on mobafire while away from your machine. With how big iphones and ipads are these days you could reach a much greater audience.
I feel like some sort of bookmarking tool for guides, comments and threads would be useful. Maybe it shows them on your profile (for you only)? Likewise guestbook and friends list couldn't hurt.
Rainbow colour overlay for your avatar, or possibly a rainbow arching over/around it. Everybody loves rainbows. Rainbows > gold.
Well, anyone, that was my piece of mind.
PS: Seriously though, you have three arrows, one in the background, one framing the features and one out of gold all pointing to your 'Buy' button. Nicely done. I'd be honestly surprised if you told me you did that in house without any marketing experience.
Edit: Having thought about the pricing, the year and 6 month price seem to be pretty good (2.50 and 3 dollars a month respectively). But the $10 for 1 month is silly. I'd recommend halving it.
Never Stop Making!
"(+rep for whoever can figure out which guide it is)"
It is obviously PsiGuard's Nocturne guide, now where is my +rep? :>
"I'm gonna be frank. The layout reminds me of those dodgy download sites advertising faster speeds for premium users."
You nailed it right here xD It does look like it.
It is obviously PsiGuard's
Nocturne guide, now where is my +rep? :>"I'm gonna be frank. The layout reminds me of those dodgy download sites advertising faster speeds for premium users."
You nailed it right here xD It does look like it.
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Patch wrote:
(+rep for whoever can figure out which guide it is).
Nice, I nailed which guide it was on the first go!
And I think the stream advertisement is more obvious (aka not minimized) when the stream is online, and less intrusive (minimized) when the stream is offline, but I haven't yet seen an online stream on a guide so I could be wrong.
Also I think that the stream exposure link on guides should link to their actual twitch channel, not their stream being played on the MOBAFire stream page. It's nice that this still gets you more viewers if you're streaming and they watch you on this page, but they can't follow you from this page and if they're not familiar with Twitch, they might not even realize that they can create a Twitch account and follow your stream to more easily see in the future when you're streaming. Linking it to their Twitch channel makes it more beneficial to both the streamer and the viewer.
Sorry I don't have much time to respond at the moment but I have read anything. Just wanted to pop in and clarify that yes, the stream is collapsed into a bar when it's offline and expanded when it's online.
Thank you everyone for your feedback, I will try to pop on and address each comment individually if it hasn't already been addressed by another admin.
Thank you everyone for your feedback, I will try to pop on and address each comment individually if it hasn't already been addressed by another admin.
Thanks to GrandMasterD for my sig!
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We already have some mockups, so this should happen pretty soon. It'll likely look very similar to the top one.
Because who cares about skill or dedication, just pay to become prominent.
Skill and dedication are also rewarded (arguably much moreso) on MOBAFire. If you're a diamond author or you show in your guide that you have a lot of experience with your champion, you're more likely to get more readers. If you are a dedicated author and consistently update your guide(s), those guides will eventually rise towards the top of the rankings, assuming they're of good quality.
Commendations are given to authors by readers who appreciate their work enough to buy the author a month of Prime and a badge, supporting MOBAFire at the same time. In this sense, it's not you paying for publicity, it's other people showing their appreciation.
You are pretty much right about stream advertisement. Though anyone may link or embed their stream in their guide, MF Prime members are given tools to place their stream at the top of their guide. It's a handy feature, but it doesn't ruin the experience for regular users. In the listings, Prime streams will be highlighted (just like Prime users and commended content are highlighted on the forums), but it doesn't instantly make them popular.
Overall, I think as a streamer or author, you're much more likely to get noticed if you create good content than someone who doesn't make good content but gets highlighted by Prime tools or commendations.
@jhoijhoi: All the staff was involved. I realize you guys would like to offer input on these features, but that's why we're looking for feedback now. Joxuu's point about Prime feeling "unfinished" is partly because it is. Like MOBAFire itself, we can always continue to develop and improve Prime based on the feedback we get and what ideas the developers and staff have.
In short, while you may not have had an opportunity to give feedback before Prime's launch, you have that opportunity now.
I definitely agree with you (and others that have mentioned it) about making Prime users and Commended content more searchable. I would expect that to come pretty soon.