My Ashe Guide

[quote=Canoas]Youmuu's costs 2687g. In the official LoL site brutalizer is missing a long sword, so it says it's 415g cheaper. 2272+415 = 2687 http://www.mobafire.com/league-of-legends/item/youmuus-ghostblade-101 http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Youmuu%27s_Ghostblade http://leaguecraft.com/item/Youmuu%27s%20Ghostblade[/quote]

[quote=Jebus McAzn]Note also that a large part of that gold cost is for the active and the cooldown reduction, neither of which Ashe can put to good use.[/quote]

[quote=The_Nameless_Bard]I thought it seems a little underpriced XD. I'd rather go for YOUMUU'S (lol) than, say, a manamune: which I see a lot of Ashes going for lately. You spend about 400-ish extra gold to get better general item stats, so the YOUMUU'S feels like a pretty good buy to me.[/quote]

[quote=B-Wong][quote=The_Nameless_Bard] I thought it seems a little underpriced XD. I'd rather go for it than, say, manamune: which I see a lot of Ashes going for lately. You spend about 400-ish extra gold to get better general item stats, that feels like a pretty good buy to me. [/quote] Nonononononononononono. You don't have anything that scales with your AD past your W which is NOT your primary source of damage, there's no point in having Manamune.[/quote]

[quote=Jebus McAzn]Ashe isn't terribly mana hungry anyway and late-game she autoattacks more than Volleys anyway.[/quote]

[quote=The_Nameless_Bard]I was saying I'd rather go for Youmuu's than Manamune, I know Manamune is bad on Ashe lol. That's why it saddens me so much to see all these Ashes rushing it. EDIT: I made the other post make sense[/quote]

[quote=jhoijhoi]As soon as I get home I'll reply to all these fantastically informative comments. You guys don't mind me quoting all this BC/LW information? I do believe my next installment will be: "The Black Cleaver vs Last Whisper Debate". Will be fun to write up, and it will declog my current item list. - be home in an hour.[/quote]

[quote=jhoijhoi][quote=heat]Max frostshot first, for starters. then you also want this order: Dorans blade, mercury treads, infinity edge, last whisper, banshees veil, bloodthirster, phantom Dancer[/quote] I don't think maxing [[frost shot]] is the best idea, as [[volley]] is your primary source of damage. In terms of your item suggestion, I already have that. My guide focuses on three builds: one for new Ashe players, one that's complimentary to [[last whisper]] and one complimentary to [[the black cleaver]]. [quote=scrax]It's Ultimate > Volley > Frost > Hawk. Only taking Hawk rank 1 in level two or three, then max it last.[/quote] I can see this being beneficial if the enemy team had champions who could dash away, such as [[ezreal]], [[kassadin]] and [nidalee]]. [quote=nighthawk]I also use a bulky Frozen Mallet Ashe[/quote] D: [quote=the_nameless_bard]Last Whisper is NOT better than Youmuu's GB unless the enemy has MORE THAN 50 armor. Because until that point the innate 20 penetrated by the Youmuu's is actually more than or equal to 40% of their total armor (but of course BC is a better item than GB). Now for Black Cleaver: 45/.4 = 112.5: so the enemy has to have at least 113 armor before LW will be better than BC (at full stacks)....[/quote] But at level 18 all champions have more than 50 armour. [quote=searz]HP/lvl seals generally is stronger for your overall survivability since armor only affects enemies with physical damage. And I don't know about you but I like a little boost to mana reg in lategame so I go with Greater Glyph of Clarity. I think it's better to always have mana than to be able to cast spells more often (even if Hawkshot is free).[/quote] The HP/lvl seals are so crap :P 187 health by the end - I could just buy a [[ruby crystal]] and make [[catalyst]] and I've already achieved over the health those runes will ever give me. [quote=searz]You really only need 1 or 2 points in Hawkshot early on. Otherwise you'll gimp your ability to slow in midgame. Maybe it's just personal preference though.[/quote] I think I'll just change it so people stop commenting on it, lol. [quote=searz]Greaves are often better unless the enemy team packs a lot of hard CC (that isn't knock ups as it isn't affected by CC reduction).[/quote] Correct me if I'm wrong, but Alistar's knock up stuns for one second after you are airborne, right? Wouldn't Tenacity effect that one second of stun? [quote=the_nameless_bard]I'm not saying Last Whisper is bad, but the math says BC should be a better choice for 50-113 armor and Youmuu's should be better for 20-50 armor. Once they hit 113 armor you should get a LW: it should be treated the same as a void staff, as it ends up being almost worthless early game compared to other ArPen items. [/quote] This is a nice summary. 0-50 armour = [[youmuu's ghostblade]] 50-120 armour = [[the black cleaver]] 120 armour+ = [[last whisper]] [quote=canoas]Don't forget TBC takes 3 or 4 hits (not sure) to get to 45 ArP, and if you change targets you'll need to start all over again. On the other hand, it also boosts other's dmg, not just yours. In most cases I think LW will let you do more dmg than TBC. Btw, I think your guide is too confusing and has too many wrong/useless info. You also keep contradicting yourself.[/quote] Please provide me with an example of contradiction. I wasn't aware of this. Also, the effect of BC stays for 5 seconds. Teamfights generally don't take longer than 30-45 seconds. [quote=the_nameless_bard]In most cases you will need at least three hits to get a kill anyways, so it seemed silly to mention it. [/quote] I kinda agree with you here. [quote=canoas]I think what I had said is that since TBC has a on hit effect the stack will not contribute to that hit, so: 1st hit: 0 pen 2nd hit: 15 pen 3rd hit: 30 pen 4th hit: 45 pen[/quote] This is something I didn't know. I thought it applied directly to the first shot. [quote=canoas]Champs have 70-80 base armor at lvl 18.... 200 armor: LW - 58.47% TBC - 39.2% [/quote] Thanks for the mathematical demonstration. - - - Again, thanks guys for all this discussion! I'm most interested in Canoas' reply to my question about inconsistencies within my guide. It's 23, 000 words and if at one point I've managed to contradict myself, I would like to know where and how so.[/quote]

[quote=Canoas]Tenacy does not affect knock-ups and knock-backs. Cleanse / QSS doesn't remove them either. [quote]Trinity Force: This items gives a little bit of everything. If you want your Enchanted Crystal Arrow to hit harder, but not lose an item slot to an AP item, this item is for you. Gives you a boost in your health and mana too. Good survivability item on Ashe that gives damage and attack speed. A Jack of all Trades item. Jebus McAzn wrote: "Triforce is not too useful on any ranged champ apart from Ezreal and Corki, tbh. Ashe doesn't spam her skills enough in a team fight because her autoattacks deal more DPS than her Volley does." [/quote] You say it's good, and you quote Jebus saying it's bad. So.. which is it? Furthermore, the last 3 items (randuin's, thornmail and FoN) you recommend are pretty crappy on Ashe. Banshee's veil is always the way to go. You're not going to get a thornmail just for a 1vs1, FoN doesn't give you HP and has less survivability than Banshee's, randuin's just sucks. Some quick calculations regarding FoN and Banshee's effective HP versus magic: FoN: 3669 BV: 3881 And if you take mercury treads: FoN: 4114 BV: 4420 As you can see banshee's provides more survivability against magic, more survivability against physical (due to the 375hp) and even blocks one spell. For Ashe it is MUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCH better than FoN. I also think 23k words is too much. Make the guide as short as possible. You can cut most explanations in half and still retain all the information. I think your problem is that you keep giving examples that are just not needed. [quote]Guardian Angel: Armor, magic resist. But upon death you come back to life on 750 health and low mana. Unless the enemy team is a bit absent minded, they're going to notice you haven't actually died, and kill you properly once your revive. It seems like a good idea, but I don't think GA is a really good item on Ashe. Basically because if you're going to die as Ashe, you're gonna die. Ashe always gets focused in a team fight. In the last few games I've played against a Nocturne, I was targeted with his ult almost every single time (even in our base near towers). They take out the DPS, it's GG.[/quote] You can just write Guardian Angel: Armor, magic resist. But upon death you come back to life on 750 health and low mana. Unless the enemy team is a bit absent minded, they're going to notice you haven't actually died, and kill you properly once your revive, so I don't think it's really useful. I took away examples that teach nothing new you'll have much less words. Do you prefer listening to someone who keeps talking about something non-important or to someone who goes straight to the point? One thing is an extensive guide that covers all the points, another thing is a guide that has filler text all over it. If you can make it shorter, do so. A guide is like a skirt. It has to be short enough to be interesting, but long enough to cover the subject. I prefer miniskirts and your guide is like a long thick skirt. EDIT: I think you misunderstood the TBC vs LW discussion. LW is always better than LW. Every team has a tank and usually an off-tank as well. You need to have LW or you won't be able to kill him. You will never fight a team of 5 peopole with less than 100 armor.[/quote]

[quote=jhoijhoi][quote=Canoas][quote]Trinity Force: This items gives a little bit of everything. If you want your Enchanted Crystal Arrow to hit harder, but not lose an item slot to an AP item, this item is for you. Gives you a boost in your health and mana too. Good survivability item on Ashe that gives damage and attack speed. A Jack of all Trades item. Jebus McAzn wrote: "Triforce is not too useful on any ranged champ apart from Ezreal and Corki, tbh. Ashe doesn't spam her skills enough in a team fight because her autoattacks deal more DPS than her Volley does." [/quote] You say it's good, and you quote Jebus saying it's bad. So.. which is it?[/quote] D: That's from my old guide? I don't have [[trinity force]] in the survivability items anymore. Or I didn't think I did... Also, in regards to thornmail and FoN, I added them in when people complained about [[banshee's veil]] not being enough. [quote]I also think 23k words is too much. Make the guide as short as possible. You can cut most explanations in half and still retain all the information. I think your problem is that you keep giving examples that are just not needed.[/quote] Maybe. But the chapters are there for a reason. If people want to skip parts, they can. The build is at the top, the chapters clearly labelled. The information is there for people who want to read it. Fair enough if they don't want to. [quote]A guide is like a skirt. It has to be short enough to be interesting, but long enough to cover the subject. I prefer miniskirts and your guide is like a long thick skirt. [/quote] Nice analogy. But that's what the scroll wheel on the mouse is for. If you want to bypass boring bits, just raise the skirt (ie, scroll accordingly). [quote]EDIT: I think you misunderstood the TBC vs LW discussion. LW is always better than LW. Every team has a tank and usually an off-tank as well. You need to have LW or you won't be able to kill him. You will never fight a team of 5 peopole with less than 100 armor. [/quote] I'm going to change BC to LW, I just haven't done it yet. I didn't misunderstand the argument at all o.O[/quote]