Morellonomicon: Underrated Item?

[quote=DarkPercy]Well, you sure did surprise me. However you are wrong when you say [[catalyst the protector]] and [[tear of the goddess]] do not provide Mana Regeneration... ''UNIQUE Passive: Valor's Reward: On leveling up, restores 150 Health and 200 Mana over 8 seconds.'' and obviously Tear gives mana regen in two ways... >_> But yeah, [[morellonomicon]] is surprisingly good. I could get it instead of [[deathfire grasp]] on champions that don't really work so well with DFG. ([[Karthus]] maybe?) There seems to have so many other more important items to build though...[/quote]

[quote=Foo18][quote=PsiGuard] [quote=Foo18]If you think [[Zhonya's Hourglass]] is a better item for damage, you are just wrong.[/quote] Nice comparison of a defensive item. Now try an actual parallel. [[Deathfire Grasp]] gives a comparable amount of CDR and a 15% hp damage nuke along with the Doom debuff. Use all the gold-AP ratio comparisons you want, a DFG mage flat-out beats a morello's mage. There are better options than morello's. Zhonya's gives a strong defensive active, void gives magic pen, abyssal gives MR, Athene's gives tons of mana sustain. Morello's simply doesn't fill a niche unless you have a reason to buy the passive effect. [/quote] (Didn't see this post the first time.) "Nice comparison of a defensive item. Now try an actual parallel." Oh come on man, that isn't fair at all. I compared it to other items more. The only reason I even mentioned Zhonya's was because some one else said that it was a better damage item. I agree that you can't compare zhonya's and morello's. I think that Athene's is a better parallel than DFG, but sure I'll compared them. DFG: 3000 gold 100 AP Gold value: 1900 15% CDR Gold value: 495 Active: Deals 15% of target champion's maximum health in Magic damage then amplifies all magic damage they take by 20% for 4 seconds. Gold value: N/A Total value: 2395 [[Deathfire grasp]]: .8 gold worth of stats per 1 gold [[morellonomicon]]: 1.34 gold worth of stats per 1 gold Morello's (stat wise) is VASTLY superior in cost effectiveness. No, I am not dismissing DFG's active. DFG's active is incredible, and game changing. However, it is only worth it on certain champs. While it is a must get on burst assassin champs like [[evelynn]] and [[ahri]], but it isn't good on AOE based mages like [[orianna]] and [[lux]]. You just have to keep in mind that you are paying almost 1k gold for that active. @Dark Percy If I said that they don't give mana regen, it was a typo. I meant to say that they didn't give MORE than morello's.[/quote]

[quote=tehAsian]Counters [[volibear]].[/quote]

[quote=Jebus McAzn]a few players over at OGN have been building morellonomicon. froggen tweeted once that it's extremely cost-efficient for the stats it gives and is better than grail if you want super early CDR. it's very very cheap and is excellent for mana-reliant champions that need CDR.[/quote]

[quote=PsiGuard][quote=Foo18] Morello's (stat wise) is VASTLY superior in cost effectiveness. No, I am not dismissing DFG's active. [/quote] Yes you are. [quote=Foo18]it isn't good on AOE based mages like [[orianna]] and [[lux]].[/quote] Athene's is stronger on both of those champions. Maybe even tear/archangel's.[/quote]

[quote=EvilDice][quote=Foo18] [quote=EvilDice] hourglass also gives armor and a must have active on mages. chalice is early mr and manaregen in lane at a cheap cost, then builds into grail which adds cdr and ap with better stats. also ori is a bad example because she is one of the most manahungry casters in the game.. chalice into grail is a must. defensive stats on casters are very important so aps who want cdr/ap are going to prefer going chalice into grail because it simply makes for a better laning phase/mid game transition. i don't think it's a bad item but it's just kind of awkward to build. [/quote] -Getting morello's does not stop you from getting hourglass. I simply said that morello's was a better damage source. -Sacrificing chalice is my biggest problem with building morello's. However, not all mages need the chalice. I love chalice. However, grail is a really meh upgrade. It gives really meh stats for how much it costs right now. Come to think of it, I would rather get chalice, and then get morello's instead of grail. -Defensive stats are important, but you can just get a negatron with the money you didn't spend on grail. -The laning phase from chalice is good, but I think the mid game from morello's is better. Besides, as I just realized, you can get chalice and morello's. (also, [[orianna]] is mana hungry, but I think you can live without athene's easily so long as you don't spam like crazy. Anivia is the only mage that I think NEEDS chalice to play with, assuming you don't take the tear route.) [/quote] i just feel that it's kinda wrong to compare those items because hourglass is so much more than just 100 ap. if you are going to use that kind of math then a NLR is 1600 gold for 80 ap which is 20 gold per ap, which would be more cost efficient on damage than most items, but we dont see people stacking NLRs (and if they do they are bad). the problem with morello after chalice comes down to again, build efficiency. you don't want a chalice just sitting in your inventory, you want to upgrade it. that's why there was a huge spike in chalice users after athenes was put into the game. if you have grail+morello you are getting too much cdr. you only need one cdr item+blue buff to get you to (or very close to) 40%. plus your next build step after chalice would be to go with the 1000 gold cdr book, which also builds into grail so you might as well just finish it off. same goes with negatron cloak. unless your motive is to build it into a qss/banshee (pretty situational) that's just a random item taking up space in your inventory. on ori you NEED to spam. ori is all about waveclear/farming in lane and you are going to use a lot of mana in order to do it right. im not a fan of people who say "manage your mana better" because you are literally handicapping yourself in lane by not spamming spells on mana hungry champs. the statement that morello has a better midgame really depends on the type of champ and what you are trying to achieve with said champ. if you are trying to farm and waveclear then athene is better. if you are trying to go for kills then morello is better. i think morello is a situationally good item on some aps but i dont really see it replacing chalice/grail anytime soon. it may be built a lot on a select few champs just like some other aps have their niche items.[/quote]

[quote=NicknameMy][quote=PsiGuard] [quote=Foo18]it isn't good on AOE based mages like [[orianna]] and [[lux]].[/quote] Athene's is stronger on both of those champions. Maybe even tear/archangel's. [/quote] You didn't notice that he compared it for DFG vs Morello ? [quote=EvilDice]i just feel that it's kinda wrong to compare those items because hourglass[/quote] You didn't notice that he only compared that because someone else said, that zhonya's is better for just damage? C'mon, read clearly what your "opponent" writes before arguing, otherwise this will never have a result. I think [[morellonomicon]] has the same problem like [[nashor's tooth]]. Yeah, it is super cost efficient, but nearly nobody can use the combination of stats. And in most situations, then another item is just better.[/quote]

[quote=Foo18][quote=NicknameMy] You didn't notice that he only compared that because someone else said, that zhonya's is better for just damage? C'mon, read clearly what your "opponent" writes before arguing, otherwise this will never have a result. [/quote] omfg, thank you so much. I thought I was going to have to say what I already said three times AGAIN. [quote=nicknamemy] I think [[morellonomicon]] has the same problem like [[nashor's tooth]]. Yeah, it is super cost efficient, but nearly nobody can use the combination of stats. And in most situations, then another item is just better. [/quote] I agree a lot. That is a good point. However, I do think there are more than just a few champs that can use all those stats effectively. Namely [[Lux]] and [[orianna]], though there may be others. [quote=PsiGuard] Foo: "I am not dismising DFG's active" Yes you are.[/quote] I did not dismissing DFG's active. It's just a fact that the active would have to be worth almost 1.2k gold for DFG to be as cost effective as morello's. On burst mages, DFG is an incredible core item, that you MUST build. However, it doesn't work well on AOE focused mages. [quote=PsiGuard] Athene's is stronger on both of those champions. Maybe even tear/archangel's. [/quote] Ok, so you ask me to compare DFG and morello's, and now you want me to compare morello's and athenes? AGAIN? Please, read the OP, I don't want to post all the comparisons again. Athene's is NOT vastly better on those champs. Unless you REALLY need the mana regen or the magic resist, morello's is better. The main problem with Athene's is how much is lacks damage. [quote=evil dice] on ori you NEED to spam. ori is all about waveclear/farming in lane and you are going to use a lot of mana in order to do it right. im not a fan of people who say "manage your mana better" because you are literally handicapping yourself in lane by not spamming spells on mana hungry champs. the statement that morello has a better midgame really depends on the type of champ and what you are trying to achieve with said champ. if you are trying to farm and waveclear then athene is better. if you are trying to go for kills then morello is better. [/quote] I am not sure that ori needs much mana. If you get blue buffs, I think morello's might give you enough mana to be effective in lane. (And I never said anything about "managing mana." I would have to try it out and see if I had enough mana or not.) All of this really depends on how much mana you NEED. That is something I cannot provide without gameplay experience, and I haven't tried it in game yet. [quote=evildice] think morello is a situationally good item on some aps but i dont really see it replacing chalice/grail anytime soon. it may be built a lot on a select few champs just like some other aps have their niche items. [/quote] This is basically my whole point. EDIT: added my reply to nicknamemy. Accidentally left it out.[/quote]

[quote=Nighthawk][quote=EvilDice] on ori you NEED to spam. ori is all about waveclear/farming in lane and you are going to use a lot of mana in order to do it right. im not a fan of people who say "manage your mana better" because you are literally handicapping yourself in lane by not spamming spells on mana hungry champs. [/quote] just like how I take clarity on champions with a lot of pushing power like karthus.[/quote]

[quote=cooper56][quote=Foo18] [quote=PsiGuard] [quote=Foo18]If you think [[Zhonya's Hourglass]] is a better item for damage, you are just wrong.[/quote] Nice comparison of a defensive item. Now try an actual parallel. [[Deathfire Grasp]] gives a comparable amount of CDR and a 15% hp damage nuke along with the Doom debuff. Use all the gold-AP ratio comparisons you want, a DFG mage flat-out beats a morello's mage. There are better options than morello's. Zhonya's gives a strong defensive active, void gives magic pen, abyssal gives MR, Athene's gives tons of mana sustain. Morello's simply doesn't fill a niche unless you have a reason to buy the passive effect. [/quote] (Didn't see this post the first time.) "Nice comparison of a defensive item. Now try an actual parallel." Oh come on man, that isn't fair at all. I compared it to other items more. The only reason I even mentioned Zhonya's was because some one else said that it was a better damage item. I agree that you can't compare zhonya's and morello's. I think that Athene's is a better parallel than DFG, but sure I'll compared them. DFG: 3000 gold 100 AP Gold value: 1900 15% CDR Gold value: 495 Active: Deals 15% of target champion's maximum health in Magic damage then amplifies all magic damage they take by 20% for 4 seconds. Gold value: N/A Total value: 2395 [[Deathfire grasp]]: .8 gold worth of stats per 1 gold [[morellonomicon]]: 1.34 gold worth of stats per 1 gold Morello's (stat wise) is VASTLY superior in cost effectiveness. No, I am not dismissing DFG's active. DFG's active is incredible, and game changing. However, it is only worth it on certain champs. While it is a must get on burst assassin champs like [[evelynn]] and [[ahri]], but it isn't good on AOE based mages like [[orianna]] and [[lux]]. You just have to keep in mind that you are paying almost 1k gold for that active. @Dark Percy If I said that they don't give mana regen, it was a typo. I meant to say that they didn't give MORE than morello's. [/quote]There buffing dfg and hour glass to give 120ap.[/quote]