When do the off-base items become viable choices?

[quote=PsiGuard][[Cloak and Dagger]] is almost entirely useless because Mercs+PD > Zerks+C&D. If I were to ever use it, it would probably be on [[Gangplank]] if I had [[Ionian Boots of Lucidity]]. [[Haunting Guise]] is okay on a few select champions. [[Vladimir]] synergizes with the health and AP. [[LeBlanc]] can take advantage of the cheap, fast AP and mPen. [[Kennen]] and [[Fiddlesticks]] often stack flat pen, so you might see them use it in some circumstances. In general it's just not as cost effective as, say, a [[Doran's Ring]]. [[Vladimir]] and [[Kennen]] don't use mana though, so they have an excuse :P [[Moonflair Spellblade]] is pretty terrible for an AP item. Since most casters build [[Void Staff]] and sell [[Sorcerer's Shoes]] for [[Mercury's Treads]], I don't expect to see much of this item. Maybe it would be all right on someone with [[Ionian Boots of Lucidity]] as a core item, but then you could just build merc's and get the CDR elsewhere. Worst of the tenacity items if you ask me. [[Tiamat]] gets a lot of different levels of criticism. Some think it's garbage, while others think it's good, but underused. Personally I can't imagine a situation where I'd need this item unless I was [[Shen]] with [[Sunfire Cape]] and [[Thornmail]] and my job was to fend off a giant wave of minions headed for our nexus. More seriously, it might have some potential with on-hit abilities like [[Siphoning Strike]], [[Mystic Shot]] and [[Parrrley]] simply because SS does massive damage when farmed and the other two turn into AoE pokes. I'm still not tempted to use this item at all, but it could work in theory.[/quote]

[quote=DuffTime]They are off base items because the suck a giant donkey dick :)[/quote]

[quote=Legendarsreign][quote=DuffTime] They are off base items because the suck a giant donkey dick :) [/quote] I think that's what PsiGuard was trying to say in a nutshell... although i think [[Tiamat]] has more potential... namely when fighting 5v5 in a team fight with people like [[Master Yi]][/quote]

[quote=DuffTime]Tiamat might be the worst item in the game. :P[/quote]

[quote=Phoenix0000ff][[tiamat]] One day those stars will align and when they do you will probably still wish you had a different item instead. This is the stuff that YouTube is made for not dependable play. When you invest in an item you want to have a predictable outcome if your enemys are bunched up like bowling pins you'd probably win the game by any other natural means provided you have any aoe spell on your team.[/quote]