Ask a Diamond [PILOT]

[quote=Xaioli][quote=IPodPulse] Hey what do you think of my Udyr jungle build. Anything you would change? [url=http://www.teryd.net/?app=buildcreator&b=Udyr&l=18&i=75,206,185,166,183,191&r=5245,5245,5245,5245,5245,5245,5245,5245,5245,5317,5317,5317,5317,5317,5317,5317,5317,5317,5290,5290,5290,5290,5290,5290,5290,5290,5290,5365,5365,5365&m=4112;4,4114;1,4122;3,4124;1,4132;1,4134;3,4142;3,4144;1,4152;3,4162;1,4211;2,4214;2,4221;1,4222;3,4232;1&s=6,10&t=0&]link[/url] The link contains everything from build, masteries, runes, etc [/quote] Seems fine except I'd replace Tabi with Merc's. Also, I'd rethink about your masteries because 21 in Offense seems a bit excessive unless you're going to attempt and cheese someone early game. I personally feel like a defensive oriented Udyr that's 5/22/3 wouldn't be bad for this type of hybrid AS/AD/Tank build. Regarding your reds, AD is fine but I prefer AS. You don't have to change it though, it's all about preference and what you are comfortable with.[/quote]

[quote=IPodPulse][quote=Xaioli] [quote=IPodPulse] Hey what do you think of my Udyr jungle build. Anything you would change? [url=http://www.teryd.net/?app=buildcreator&b=Udyr&l=18&i=75,206,185,166,183,191&r=5245,5245,5245,5245,5245,5245,5245,5245,5245,5317,5317,5317,5317,5317,5317,5317,5317,5317,5290,5290,5290,5290,5290,5290,5290,5290,5290,5365,5365,5365&m=4112;4,4114;1,4122;3,4124;1,4132;1,4134;3,4142;3,4144;1,4152;3,4162;1,4211;2,4214;2,4221;1,4222;3,4232;1&s=6,10&t=0&]link[/url] The link contains everything from build, masteries, runes, etc [/quote] Seems fine except I'd replace Tabi with Merc's. Also, I'd rethink about your masteries because 21 in Offense seems a bit excessive unless you're going to attempt and cheese someone early game. I personally feel like a defensive oriented Udyr that's 5/22/3 wouldn't be bad for this type of hybrid AS/AD/Tank build. Regarding your reds, AD is fine but I prefer AS. You don't have to change it though, it's all about preference and what you are comfortable with. [/quote] How are these? [img=http://i.imgur.com/1pEZsER.png][/quote]

[quote=Xaioli][quote=IPodPulse] [quote=Xaioli] [quote=IPodPulse] Hey what do you think of my Udyr jungle build. Anything you would change? [url=http://www.teryd.net/?app=buildcreator&b=Udyr&l=18&i=75,206,185,166,183,191&r=5245,5245,5245,5245,5245,5245,5245,5245,5245,5317,5317,5317,5317,5317,5317,5317,5317,5317,5290,5290,5290,5290,5290,5290,5290,5290,5290,5365,5365,5365&m=4112;4,4114;1,4122;3,4124;1,4132;1,4134;3,4142;3,4144;1,4152;3,4162;1,4211;2,4214;2,4221;1,4222;3,4232;1&s=6,10&t=0&]link[/url] The link contains everything from build, masteries, runes, etc [/quote] Seems fine except I'd replace Tabi with Merc's. Also, I'd rethink about your masteries because 21 in Offense seems a bit excessive unless you're going to attempt and cheese someone early game. I personally feel like a defensive oriented Udyr that's 5/22/3 wouldn't be bad for this type of hybrid AS/AD/Tank build. Regarding your reds, AD is fine but I prefer AS. You don't have to change it though, it's all about preference and what you are comfortable with. [/quote] How are these? [img=http://i.imgur.com/1pEZsER.png] [/quote] Was thinking a bit more like this since I favor Perseverance and Second Wind but if you prefer MR, go ahead. I also dislike Bladed Armor and it's pre-requisite since it honestly feels weak compared to Enchanted Armor which usually gives you +2-3armor and +1-2 MR per game and a point in Recovery for somewhat negligible hp regen(You can feel the extra +1hp/5sec regen but if you like Enchanted Armor a lot, feel free to put 2 pts in it). Putting a point in Swiftness is also situational depending on the enemy team. If they have a lot of slows, take this point. If not, don't take it. Asides from those listed above, I whole heartedly agree with you for that specific Udyr build. Gotta go fast, do damage and most importantly - be a pain in the ass. [URL=http://imgur.com/GiKjw2u][IMG]http://i.imgur.com/GiKjw2u.png[/IMG][/URL][/quote]

[quote=IPodPulse][quote=Xaioli] [quote=IPodPulse] [quote=Xaioli] [quote=IPodPulse] Hey what do you think of my Udyr jungle build. Anything you would change? [url=http://www.teryd.net/?app=buildcreator&b=Udyr&l=18&i=75,206,185,166,183,191&r=5245,5245,5245,5245,5245,5245,5245,5245,5245,5317,5317,5317,5317,5317,5317,5317,5317,5317,5290,5290,5290,5290,5290,5290,5290,5290,5290,5365,5365,5365&m=4112;4,4114;1,4122;3,4124;1,4132;1,4134;3,4142;3,4144;1,4152;3,4162;1,4211;2,4214;2,4221;1,4222;3,4232;1&s=6,10&t=0&]link[/url] The link contains everything from build, masteries, runes, etc [/quote] Seems fine except I'd replace Tabi with Merc's. Also, I'd rethink about your masteries because 21 in Offense seems a bit excessive unless you're going to attempt and cheese someone early game. I personally feel like a defensive oriented Udyr that's 5/22/3 wouldn't be bad for this type of hybrid AS/AD/Tank build. Regarding your reds, AD is fine but I prefer AS. You don't have to change it though, it's all about preference and what you are comfortable with. [/quote] How are these? [img=http://i.imgur.com/1pEZsER.png] [/quote] Was thinking a bit more like this since I favor Perseverance and Second Wind but if you prefer MR, go ahead. I also dislike Bladed Armor and it's pre-requisite since it honestly feels weak compared to Enchanted Armor which usually gives you +2-3armor and +1-2 MR per game and a point in Recovery for somewhat negligible hp regen(You can feel the extra +1hp/5sec regen but if you like Enchanted Armor a lot, feel free to put 2 pts in it). Putting a point in Swiftness is also situational depending on the enemy team. If they have a lot of slows, take this point. If not, don't take it. Asides from those listed above, I whole heartedly agree with you for that specific Udyr build. Gotta go fast, do damage and most importantly - be a pain in the ass. [URL=http://imgur.com/GiKjw2u][IMG]http://i.imgur.com/GiKjw2u.png[/IMG][/URL] [/quote] Thank you very much for the help Xaioli, I appreciate you taking the time to help me with this. I will definitely follow your suggestions. Have some rep :)[/quote]

[quote=PsiGuard][quote=Xaioli]I also dislike Bladed Armor and it's pre-requisite since it honestly feels weak compared to Enchanted Armor which usually gives you +2-3armor and +1-2 MR per game and a point in Recovery for somewhat negligible hp regen[/quote] But [[tough skin]] negates like a bajillion damage from camps. :/ 2 damage reduction per autoattack gets multiplied by the number of monsters in the camp. So you're basically saving yourself 8 health per wraiths autoattack, 6 health per attack at buffs and wolves. I agree that [[bladed armor]] is pretty bad though.[/quote]

[quote=PsiGuard][quote=DillButt64] on hecarim if youre building trinity force would it be better to get sheen or phage first? ive been going phage but i see others get sheen first EDIT: also runes? ive been going armpen reds armor yellows mr blues(might change to scaling when i get them idk) and MS quints [/quote] [[Phage]] first is generally better. Health and AD is simply more valuable than the [[sheen]] proc, particularly at early levels. I like armor pen marks, armor seals, MR/lvl glyphs and AD quints personally. I'm pretty sure the MS quints give you a negligible boost in AD. Hecarim doesn't usually have problems sticking to people, but his early clear is pretty bad and his base damage isn't that high so I think AD quints do a better job of filling in his weaknesses.[/quote]

[quote=Embracing]xai is alive !!![/quote]

[quote=Xaioli][quote=PsiGuard] [quote=Xaioli]I also dislike Bladed Armor and it's pre-requisite since it honestly feels weak compared to Enchanted Armor which usually gives you +2-3armor and +1-2 MR per game and a point in Recovery for somewhat negligible hp regen[/quote] But [[tough skin]] negates like a bajillion damage from camps. :/ 2 damage reduction per autoattack gets multiplied by the number of monsters in the camp. So you're basically saving yourself 8 health per wraiths autoattack, 6 health per attack at buffs and wolves. I agree that [[bladed armor]] is pretty bad though. [/quote] I took that into consideration when I ran a lot of custom games to test but it's very lack luster simply because of the new heal on hit effects from items. Spirit Stone items at least grant 6% HP back on dmg and you deal an extra 20% to all monsters. If you count the amount of damage from autos and spells, you're almost always full HP when jungling past your first buyback. Same with Madred's and our new lord and savior - Feral Flare. Madreds heal for 8 and deal 80 bonus magic damage to monsters while granting attack speed(and these stats go up as you get a Wriggles/Feral Flare). If you think about the AS steroids you get from champions that benefit from Feral Flare components like Jax, Xin, Udyr, etc, it's very rare that you're not almost full health. To wrap it up, Tough Skin is great for your first clear but when you most likely survive to your Machete upgrade, the damage reduction is really negligible although it looks amazing on paper thanks to the new heal changes on those items. [quote=IPodPulse] Thank you very much for the help Xaioli, I appreciate you taking the time to help me with this. I will definitely follow your suggestions. Have some rep :) [/quote] np, feel free to PM me here or add me in-game if you'd like to debate or seek more help. I'll try to check this thread as often as I can but no promises if I miss posts :s. Just throwing it out there - MOBAFire has a lot of decent junglers so if you want a greater understanding of how to jungle a certain champion or in general, feel free to poke around because every jungler has their own style and you can decide if you would like to imitate or create your own play-style. Getting to the point, don't fully take what I said to heart. I encourage you to ask other junglers what their opinions are about what I said and see if you can defend the play-style I encourage with that build. What I told you might not work for you simply because our play-styles don't match or simply because the levels of competitiveness differ (what may work in Diamond might not work in Bronze). So question around and good luck! [quote=Embracing] xai is alive !!! [/quote] !!![/quote]

[quote=utopus]Wouldn't CDR be better with udyr?[/quote]

[quote=Xaioli][quote=utopus] Wouldn't CDR be better with udyr? [/quote] Yeah I almost encourage 5% CDR in Offense and 5% in CDR blues to everyone. However if you saw his build, every rune was budget cost for IP. That 10% would fill the missing gap and hit CDR cap with the rest of his build. Along with that, armor seals can be replaced for health or health/level. But the fact that he listed cheap runes simply means that he couldn't afford these stronger alternatives which are a bit pricier. I think what I came up with was decent for what he has now with room for improvement with larger pools of expendable IP.[/quote]