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Just some observations about some junglers that I've tried out since the start of preseason.
Tryndamere is still viable in the jungle even after the hot fix to
Warlord's Bloodlust
. I know because I did the whole thing with AP runes and masteries and still managed to contribute meaningfully to the game once I got some attack speed.
Since you no longer gain health except on crits on champions, you definitely lose more health on your first clear so you have to watch out of invades by junglers with executes like Lee Sin, but with the right masteries and the life steal you get from Hunter's Machete you can still make it through a full clear if you take the time to lifesteal off the Scuttlecrabs.
With Tryndamere I will usually try to clear half the jungle + Scuttle Crab and then gank a lane. Half the time I will run into the enemy jungler trying to secure the Scuttle Crab and I can usually do enough damage to them to send them packing back to base, which gives my lanes some breathing room.
Lee Sin is a in a really good position at the moment. If you've thought about trying him out go for it. I'm definitely trash Tier with him and I was still able to have a meaningful impact in the game I played using him. Get his mechanics down and you'll be able to wrecks some serious havoc. Though if you aren't playing him with a team of friends be prepared to take a lot of **** when you don't play amazingly (and you won't while you are learning him).
Hecarim burns a boat load of mana. I think he is probably better off in top lane. You can mitigate this to some extent by going with a Hunter's Potion.
Fiddlesticks can make it through a red stide start if he skips the Scuttlecrab and goes for Blue Buff immediately after finishing the Raptors. Killing Scuttlecrab with Fiddle is actually a pain unless you can trap it against a wall. Though after you have a solid chunk of AP (think Zhonya's Hourglass + Rabadon's Deathcap it gets easier.
Master Yi clears the jungle with no problem. Early ganks kind of suck, so you probably want to go back to base and finish your jungle item as soon as possible or at least get Hunter's Talisman for the extra XP on large monster kills. IIRC with about two clears under your belt you can hit level 6 assuming you are getting the extra XP. Ganking gets a little better after that because of the movement speed and attack speed you get from Highlander.
Aatrox - if you've been reading my blog you've probably noticed that I've tried to make him work. On paper he has all the right tools. He clears the jungle with no problem. With Hunter's Machete you can stay out forever. I beileve you can still do a level 3 dragon if you put a second point in Blood Thirst / Blood Price. Aatrox can actually kill the Baron by himself with a decent amount of lifesteal. I can't say the same for other junlgers.
By beef with Aatrox is still that his cooldowons are too high, Q is easily interruptible and dodgeable, and he has to be autoattacking to really do any damage.
If you think of any other decent melee auto attacking champion they pretty much all have some way to make sure that they can keep auto attacking despite what they other team might try to do to them.
Tryndamere can make himself unkillable for 5 seconds and gains AD the lower in health he gets. Master Yi can make himself untargetable via Alpha Strike. Jax can dodge a lot of things via Counter Strike, Irelia has a stupidly long stun, Trundle steals your AD and your defenses. Need I go on? Aatrox dies and then revives sans the attack speed he gets from having a full Blood Well.
Maybe they will reactify some of his issues when they do a pass over the "dive" champions such as they have done with the juggernauts and more recently the ADCs.
Zac - Zac isn't much of an auto attacker, so Hunter's Talisman is probably the better start, but Hunter's Machete may also work. He gets low on the buff camp, but that was true is Season 5 as well. He will be healthy enough to Gank at level 3 an you can probably do an entire clear thereafter if you don't get too low during the gank.
Tryndamere is still viable in the jungle even after the hot fix to
Warlord's Bloodlust
. I know because I did the whole thing with AP runes and masteries and still managed to contribute meaningfully to the game once I got some attack speed.Since you no longer gain health except on crits on champions, you definitely lose more health on your first clear so you have to watch out of invades by junglers with executes like
Lee Sin, but with the right masteries and the life steal you get from Hunter's Machete you can still make it through a full clear if you take the time to lifesteal off the Scuttlecrabs.With Tryndamere I will usually try to clear half the jungle + Scuttle Crab and then gank a lane. Half the time I will run into the enemy jungler trying to secure the Scuttle Crab and I can usually do enough damage to them to send them packing back to base, which gives my lanes some breathing room.
Lee Sin is a in a really good position at the moment. If you've thought about trying him out go for it. I'm definitely trash Tier with him and I was still able to have a meaningful impact in the game I played using him. Get his mechanics down and you'll be able to wrecks some serious havoc. Though if you aren't playing him with a team of friends be prepared to take a lot of **** when you don't play amazingly (and you won't while you are learning him). Hecarim burns a boat load of mana. I think he is probably better off in top lane. You can mitigate this to some extent by going with a Hunter's Potion. Fiddlesticks can make it through a red stide start if he skips the Scuttlecrab and goes for Blue Buff immediately after finishing the Raptors. Killing Scuttlecrab with Fiddle is actually a pain unless you can trap it against a wall. Though after you have a solid chunk of AP (think Zhonya's Hourglass + Rabadon's Deathcap it gets easier. Master Yi clears the jungle with no problem. Early ganks kind of suck, so you probably want to go back to base and finish your jungle item as soon as possible or at least get Hunter's Talisman for the extra XP on large monster kills. IIRC with about two clears under your belt you can hit level 6 assuming you are getting the extra XP. Ganking gets a little better after that because of the movement speed and attack speed you get from Highlander. Aatrox - if you've been reading my blog you've probably noticed that I've tried to make him work. On paper he has all the right tools. He clears the jungle with no problem. With Hunter's Machete you can stay out forever. I beileve you can still do a level 3 dragon if you put a second point in Blood Thirst / Blood Price. Aatrox can actually kill the Baron by himself with a decent amount of lifesteal. I can't say the same for other junlgers.By beef with Aatrox is still that his cooldowons are too high, Q is easily interruptible and dodgeable, and he has to be autoattacking to really do any damage.
If you think of any other decent melee auto attacking champion they pretty much all have some way to make sure that they can keep auto attacking despite what they other team might try to do to them.
Tryndamere can make himself unkillable for 5 seconds and gains AD the lower in health he gets. Master Yi can make himself untargetable via Alpha Strike. Jax can dodge a lot of things via Counter Strike, Irelia has a stupidly long stun, Trundle steals your AD and your defenses. Need I go on? Aatrox dies and then revives sans the attack speed he gets from having a full Blood Well.Maybe they will reactify some of his issues when they do a pass over the "dive" champions such as they have done with the juggernauts and more recently the ADCs.
Zac - Zac isn't much of an auto attacker, so Hunter's Talisman is probably the better start, but Hunter's Machete may also work. He gets low on the buff camp, but that was true is Season 5 as well. He will be healthy enough to Gank at level 3 an you can probably do an entire clear thereafter if you don't get too low during the gank.
You absolutely do not need
Also
This is because 3 health pots give 450 hp and 2 Refillable Potion charges give 200 hp. If you want to find out which starting item is better, you need to stick with the same potion setup to compare them properly.
Agreed on his second clear being super easy. I'll try again on the 3 potion start with Hunter's Machete. I generally just run through the same clear with different item sets and see how healthy I come out. But there are a decent number of variables that are a hard to control plus my execution isn't always prefect.
IIRC correctly I did the Hunter's Machete + 3 Health Potions on
Makes sense on the Runic Armor. I felt it was a bit of fine reading and wasn't quite sure how it worked.
Appreciate your chiming in on Nocturne since he is one of you favorite champions. That kind of background is invaluable and if I can get to my Warriors or Devourer just a little more quickly that will be a big help. Danke schoen!
Also
This is because 3 health pots give 450 hp and 2 Refillable Potion charges give 200 hp. If you want to find out which starting item is better, you need to stick with the same potion setup to compare them properly.
One note about
So neither
Update 22-Nov-2015 It is about a wash on Hunter's Machete + 3 Health Potions vs Hunter's Talisman + 3 Potions. In clear speed I managed it with both in about 5:12 including scuttle crabs though I got more variance (time spread varied more) when using Hunter's Talisman. In either case you just about do need to life steal + pick up bloblets via the scuttle crabs to do a full clear and if the other jungler has already taken one or both that may not be an option.
No leash - Krugs - Red Buff - Gromp - Scuttle Crab - Blue Buff - Wolvess - Raptors - Scuttle Crab.
And there may be a better order. That is just the one I typically use for testing.