Talon Discussion Thread

[quote=Nighthawk]Actually I think Talon could do really well tanky dps. Depending on how much his passive increases his damage, he could definitely go for a fatma's combo, or just go triforce. Typical build for me would like like this: Tanky DPS: Merc Treads, FM, Atma's, Randy's, BV or just go pure assassin and hope to hell you don't die and they don't have oracles. Ionian Boots, (wriggles if your jungling), (perhaps a MM if he's super mana hungry), Triforce, (perhaps a brutalizer), IE/TBC (IE if your going crit). And if he scales at all well hybrid I would love to go gunblades since the slow is super nice for his damage, and the lifesteal/spell vamp.[/quote]

[quote=Caladar]I don't actively play on my account on the US server so I can't play Talon yet. But what do you guys think of the following build : [[Doran's Blade]] [[Mercury's Treads]] [[The Brutalizer]] [[B. F. Sword]] [[Phage]] into [[Frozen Mallet]] [[Hexdrinker]] finish [[Youmuu's Ghostblade]] finish [[Infinity Edge]] [[Banshee's Veil]] (Throwing Catalyst inbetween whenever it suits the situation best.) I considered the Hexdrinker to last a bit longer in teamfights to do your job, and mitigate some of the heavy magic damage that might come in. Alternatively, an [[Atma's Impaler]] would grant 60 AD if you add the HP from Frozen + Banshees, if hexdrinker isn't all that needed.[/quote]

[quote=JunSupport]Clearly, [[Atma's Impaler]] needs to die. Letting tanky dps build too tanky while keeping too much dps. Off to the item-feedback forums...[/quote]

[quote=Yukimaru][quote=JunSupport] Clearly, [[Atma's Impaler]] needs to die. Letting tanky dps build too tanky while keeping too much dps. Off to the item-feedback forums... [/quote] While our Opinions differ often, i so agree with you on that one^^ Also do you think Trinity is fine at it is now? Now that his ratios and stuff are up on the LoL wiki, he has 5 Seconds cooldown on his Q, good Ratios on 2 of his spells(considering they hit 2 times) hes rly viable for a Metagolem[/quote]

[quote=JunSupport][[Trinity Force]] is the most expensive item in the game. It's flat stats are all individually low, while it's passives are all situational. It's fine. [[Atma's Impaler]] is an issue because it directly makes defense into offense without any trade off. You can build [[Warmog's Armor]] and [[Force of Nature]] along side it, and effectively become a juggernaut with. caucheka's metagolem idea was close, but Trinity Force isn't part of the problem. It's the Atmog.[/quote]

[quote=Yukimaru]Also Reginald did a Summoner "Spotlight" for Talon, but right now it seems more like troll, also note: SORAKA MID TO GUD http://solomid.net/videoplayer.php?v=663[/quote]

[quote=Temzilla]Reginald is SO BAD at Talon lol XD. He got better since that game, but that's a pretty bad game.[/quote]

[quote=Caladar][quote=JunSupport] Clearly, [[Atma's Impaler]] needs to die. Letting tanky dps build too tanky while keeping too much dps. Off to the item-feedback forums... [/quote] Atma's is indeed a problem since all tanky DPS can be juggernauts with it. (Heck, I love getting it on Jarvan and Olaf as Atmog). But my point of getting Atma's is having the additional armor and crit, along with the "free" AD for 655 gold less then Blood Thirster. Though you don't benefit from the lifesteal, you get armor, crit (which translates into burst), and AD. I'm personally not a fan of Trinity Force on melee Champions that have AD as a scaling on their hardest hitting/most useful skill. Wukong for example, I don't like getting it until I have Black Cleaver and Frozen Mallet, and same tanky items.[/quote]

[quote=Lugignaf]My synapses, posted from another thread because I'm too lazy to re-type it. *clears throat* Played 2 premades. Talon on both sides. He can easily dominate a 1v1 and survive a 1v2 lane with a good jungler. He is really good in the bot lane with a support because of his mana costs and harass. He snowballs really well and can kill one person from full to nothing in about 2-3 seconds or less if they don't build armor. The bonus damage from Cutthroat really hurts. Damage from his W is fairly weak but it's the slow that makes it really strong. IMO, he's leaning towards the OP side but, not overly OP. He has some glaring problems but nothing that good teamwork can't overcome from both sides.[/quote]

[quote=NicknameMy][url=http://www.mobafire.com/league-of-legends/forum/theorycrafting/triforce-vs-frozen-mallet-6789][color=#0080ff]Jebus McAzn[/color] said[/url]: [quote]Consider the many champs that you MAY have been considering [color=#00ffff][[Frozen Mallet]][/color] on. Now take that item out and replace it with [color=yellow][[Trinity Force]][/color] . Improvement or no? [color=#00ffff][[Frozen Mallet]][/color] only costs around 800 gold less than [color=yellow][[Trinity Force]][/color], but doesn't offer MUCH more. It gives 700 health compared to [color=yellow][[Trinity Force]][/color]'s 250, and 20 AD compared to [color=yellow][[Trinity Force]][/color]'s 30. What else are you getting? A permanent slow, okay. But [color=yellow][[Trinity Force]][/color] isn't exactly unreliable. You have a 25% chance to inflict a slow, which doesn't sound like much, but after just 2 attacks that's a 44% chance. After three, it's 58%. After four, it's 69%. The point is, if you can land just a few attacks on a champ, you're more likely than not to inflict the slow on them. And on top of that, [color=yellow][[Trinity Force]][/color] gives a TON more stats and a damage proc on top of that for less than 800 gold. So why would you ever get [color=#00ffff][[Frozen Mallet]][/color]? Who were the champions that may have bought [color=#00ffff][[Frozen Mallet]][/color] a few months ago? [[Kog'Maw]], [[Teemo]], [[Olaf]], [[Master Yi]], [[Udyr]], etc. Now replace those items with a [color=yellow][[Trinity Force]][/color] and see what happens. [color=yellow][[Trinity Force]][/color] [[Kog'Maw]] is getting very strong lately. He can really abuse the proc because of his ultimate and the movespeed helps immensely in teamfight positioning, and the AP doesn't hurt. [[Teemo]], not so much. You're a close-range DPS who's really squishy and who also does NOT spam abilities, meaning that [color=#00ffff][[Frozen Mallet]][/color] may just be a better buy. [[Olaf]] actually can do quite well with [color=yellow][[Trinity Force]][/color] but sometimes opts for [color=#00ffff][[Frozen Mallet]][/color] because you're building [[Atma's Impaler]] later on and you want to be tankier. Still, [color=yellow][[Trinity Force]][/color] Olaf is quite possible. [[Master Yi]]? Saintvicious's recent Yi guide incorporates [color=yellow][[Trinity Force]][/color]. [[Alpha Strike]]+[color=yellow][[Trinity Force]][/color] is super strong and with [[Highlander]], you'll be spamming in teamfights. [color=yellow][[Trinity Force]][/color] lets you push towers faster as well. [color=yellow][[Trinity Force]][/color] has been core on [[Udyr]] for weeks now. In short: Buy [color=#00ffff][[Frozen Mallet]][/color] only under one or more of the following conditions: -You're super squishy and you want the extra health, but you don't want to build purely defensive like a [[Banshee's Veil]]. -You don't spam abilities very often and you can't abuse [color=yellow][[Trinity Force]][/color] very well. -You WANT to build tanky because you're offtanking or you've bought an [[Atma's Impaler]] and [color=#00ffff][[Frozen Mallet]][/color] is more cost-effective. -Your attack speed is slow and you have a much smaller chance of getting the slow proc off. Otherwise, do [color=yellow][[Trinity Force]][/color]. It's just so much better.[/quote] [url=http://www.mobafire.com/league-of-legends/forum/theorycrafting/triforce-vs-frozen-mallet-6789?page=2#comment-269597]Nighthawk said[/url]: [quote]You get [color=yellow][[Trinity Force]][/color] on carries/people who want damage or want some damage but mainly tank. You want [color=#00ffff][[Frozen Mallet]][/color] on people who want tank and already have damage. If you go Yi and you build Boots, IE, PD, BT, you build [color=#00ffff][[Frozen Mallet]][/color] cause you have damage and want tank If you go Yi and you build boots, Atma's, BV, IE, you build [color=yellow][[Trinity Force]][/color] cause you already have tank and you want more damage. on someone like [[Jarvan IV]] (who has the highest base armor in the game) with Wriggles, Mercs, Warmogs, Atma's, you get a triforce cause you have enough tankiness and now you need damage, not a FM, even if you do have atma's.[/quote] Quick calculation: 700-98%=14 250-98%=5 14+20-30-5= -1 Means Trima's gives you 1 more AD than Fatma's. And now Trinity has more AS, Crit, etc... Atmog's: 1370-98%=27,4 Talma's: 1970-98%=39,4 Atmog's: 27,4 Trima's: 35 Fatma's: 34 Talma's: 39,4[/quote]