Hey there ^^

You asked for a review so I figured I'd take a look. I know it's been a while since you made a request (in fact you were one of the first), but at first I thought GrandmasterD was going to look at this. Apparently he's not, which is why I'll do the review now. Sorry it took a while.

As you may (or may not) know, we judge based on the viability/content of the guide, the spelling/grammar, visual appearance and depth, so I'll go by them one by one.


I understand that this is an AD Garen build, but I'd still like to express my opinion. I don't think tank Garen is any good as you're simply wasting potential in terms of damage and he's not that good at protecting teammates either, but full AD is a bit too offensive for me tbh.
I would suggest doing the following things:

• Consider changing your purchase order to get Frozen Mallet (or at least the Giant's Belt for health) sooner: I don't think Garen needs a Phantom Dancer so early considering the fact that you buy Boots of Swiftness and considering the fact he has a good base movement speed and gets a speed increase when using Decisive Strike. His damage is also very high early game anyway, I see no need to build so much offensive items and make him squishy when he can in fact be quite tanky and still deal a lot of damage.
• Consider replacing some of the items by more tanky items that work great on him like Force of Nature (which also adds movement speed and has great health regen which synergizes with his passive) or Sunfire Aegis (which also adds some health for the Atma's Impaler passive and synergizes very well with his Judgment).
• Consider using tankier runes. I'm not a huge fan of dodge personally and considering the fact that dodge'll be removed anyway you can replace them for armor seals. The glyphs can be replaced by mres per lvl or flat mres if it is needed (you mention them, but I'd really use them). Yes, I get it, cooldown reduction is a great thing, but I prefer getting CDR in the form of The Brutalizer or Youmuu's Ghostblade (why isn't either of these items included in the build or even mentioned in the guide? o_o) if it really is needed as the ~6% that you get from the glyphs won't make a huge difference. They're not as valuable imo as more tankiness, anyway. If you'd also be interested in tankiness from your quintessences I guess the health quintessences would be the best choice. Every AD carry uses armor penetration (although AD to dominate early game is also often used!), but that doesn't necessarily make armor pen the standard choice for tanky DPS champs.
• Consider using 21/6/3 instead of 21/0/9 to get some extra armor and magic resistance.

I know what you're thinking. This is a guide, not a bible. And yes, you've clearly stated that everyone should use what works for them. As I said, I'm just sharing my opinion :)

Some other comments based on your current choices and the content of the guide:

• Error in your cheatsheet: You take rank 5 of Judgment at level 8, that is actually not possible. Getting another point in Decisive Strike at level 8 and maxing Judgment at level 9 is what you should change it to.
• Purely out of interest, how would AD quintessences be on him? Not that he'd really need them considering his early game damage, but I just wondered.
• At first I expected your mastery section to have a list of masteries you pick with an explanation as to why you pick them. I then read that you actually didn't simply want to make a list of masteries you use, so I figured you'd focus on explaining why you didn't get the masteries that you don't use. In the end, it turns out your mastery section is a (bit of a random) combination of masteries you do pick and masteries you don't pick. I'd stick to showing your current masteries and explaining why you use them (you don't have to explain every single point you take) and showing some alternative setups and why someone could use them instead of the standard 21/0/9 setup you show. It's a bit confusing atm.
• in your description of Atma's Impaler: 'Very likely going to be added to main build in near future' --> it is in your main build :P

Good job overall, very few errors. I still managed to find a few things (just Ctrl + F them):

• Your survivability low levels is pretty solid and your damage is excellent --> missing a word: your survivability at low levels
• is going to be spend --> spent
• a desperation choice --> desperate choice or choice made out of desperation
• Enemies with armor makes it feel like your swinging around a wet noodle --> enemies make it feel like... Also, I hope this is simply some saying that I'm not familiar with because else I have no idea what you mean with 'swinging around a wet noodle' :P
• Silence is speaks volumes --> remove is
• to prevent escape judgement --> Would rephrase it to: to prevent that enemies can escape from judgment. As you can see I deliberately typed Judgment instead of Judgement, might as well stick to the way they spell it in game.
• Flash is currently more popular than air --> air? I think you mean Ghost?
• and it's effectiveness --> you're looking for the possessive adjective its
• you team will be mad --> your
• (for speed buff]] --> being nitpicky, but it should of course be a ) instead of the ]]

I like your use of icons and colours, but I still think there's a lot you can imrpove:

• You can display your masteries and runes by using the following codes:
  
  Code:

  [runes] [masteries]
  
  Place these at the top of the Runes/Masteries section :)
• Work on your headers. Center them (like you did in the Core/Suggested Items section, for example) and experiment with the different sizes of headers you can choose.
• Learn how to use colums (check jhoijhoi's guide to see how to use them).
  To take your Skills section as an example, you could make it look like this:
  

  SPACE

  Decisive Strike (Q) Very solid, very helpful ability. Movement speed is useful for closing the gap on your prey or for hauling *** out of a rotten situation. Damage is nice, I like to hit things and make them fall over. Silence is speaks volumes. Max second.

  
  As you can see columns allow you to place information next to each other, that can look really nice sometimes :)
• Just as a 'warning', dont center too much text. Right now you only centered the text in your Summoner Spells section (which is fine), but if you decide to add more information, please don't center long chapters. It's not very pleasant to read imo.
• Since I don't know where else to say this, I'll say it here. I think you should change the order of your current chapters. A change log at the beginning of the entire guide doesn't make a lot of sense (should be at the end), I would discuss what summoner spells to use directly after describing the runes and masteries you use and the Skills section should be placed right before discussing Items. It makes sense to describe what skillset he has and then following up by explaining that the items you get match that skillset :)

Your information on gameplay is great and in-depth and I love that you added a video with your own commentary :D
However, I still think there are some things missing or things that can be improved:

• Add a basic Pros/Cons section at the start. Either make one describing the Pros/Cons of this build in comparison to tankier alternatives or simply make Pros/Cons of the champion itself (or both of course ^^)
• Add more alternatives in terms of summoner spells, runes and mastery setups. A more in-depth description of Ghost and Teleport would be great, for instance.
• Make a small separate chapter explaining your skill sequence.
  It's basic information but new Garen players need to know why it is no longer needed to put any more points in Courage, why Judgment is best maxed first etc.
  You can easily insert your current skill sequence by using the following code:
  
  Code:

  [abilities]
• If you really want to add more depth in terms of gameplay, write something about different opponents you'll face in top lane, how to beat them and what to watch out for

---

Hope it helps :)

Good luck on further improving the guide ^^

I have to disagree with your comment. I have little issue with survivability (and if I ever do I adapt, no build should be set in stone), and very rarely have issues with kiting due to Boots of Swiftness and relatively quick Phantom Dancer. Perhaps dying quickly is an issue if you're being focus fired (in which case you should be kiting) or initiating (which you should not be doing).

By timing your defensive items, using your abilities properly, and playing your role in a teamfight properly, survivability isn't an issue.

I offered you constructive criticisms for your guide, and was rewarded with a negative vote for the build order - which is meant to be flexible - instead of one based on the guide as a whole. Thanks for that. If you're worried about guide ranking, it's easier to improve your own guide than it is to downvote the competition.

Edit: Corrected typo

-1 from me because honestly you have no health at all until late game and 80% of the time you wont get to that item. So at the beginning of a team fight you will die almost insantly from most enemies as you just get easily kited. But this is just my opinion, if you can play it good thats good, but me personaly I couldnt get threw any elo in ranked and hardely through a 5v5 match.

To truly succeed as a tank, a character needs to be difficult to kill but dangerous or disruptive enough to be worth killing. Garen built as a tank isn't worth focusing, and only harms his team by KSing carries with his ult. A DPS Garen -earns- those KBs, and will put the gold into earning more of them.

Best played as a thick-hide heavy hitter if you ask me.

Applies to Garen how? He has high base damage early game, but if you dont suppliment that he falls off drastically by mid game alone. And what CC? His silence? If that makes him a tank I guess I should start building Talon tank then.

And if you want to talk about high level, lets talk about Choax and see what he has to say about Bloodthirster on Garen. http://www.own3d.tv/video/155999/SoloMid.net_-_Chaox_s_Marathon_-_Garen

Very few tanks scale with tank related things. Tanks have CC and high base damage. This applies to garen.

Although I appreciate the thought out reply and criticism, I'm inclined to disagree. Though he has some tanky aspects none of his abilites stack with tank stats such as hp or armor. I'm not saying he can't be played as a tank, I just don't feel it's what he's best at. Certainly not in my hands.

Try to keep in mind this is a AD Garen build. ^_^

With that said, my reasoning for Bloodthirster is two fold. Partly for the sustain (everything from staying in lane as long as I damn-well please to recuperating after a fight by jungling), and partly because late game your auto-attack damage becomes increasingly important. As defenses go up people stop dropping in the duration of a spin.

Sounds off the beat by quite a bit. Infinity Edge is the only offensive item I see on most Garens, and most of the feed all game. Atma's Impaler is what I grab if I feel offensive, but in general Garen has such high damage output early to mid game it's best to build tanky all the way. When you build tanky, you still do good damage, and people want to focus you, but it's mostly wasted b/c you're so durable, and your team mops the floor with them. I simply don't see Garen as a DPS at high levels, now or ever.
I really dislike that Bloodthirster man. Garens damage is mostly in abilities, why get an AA healer? And spell vamp is outta the question since he has no use for AP, in fact with his passive it's best to build HP items and regen items such as Warmog's Armor + Force of Nature.

weooooeooeoooo

Will it be unfair to say that this build is suicidal withought using it :P.Anyway.Maybe this will be fun to use in normal games :).Btw whats your acc lvl profile?.