Heelp Shaco!

[quote=DuffTime]If you're good at farming...? Trinity Warmogg's Atma's FoN Infinity edge for Yi.[/quote]

[quote=JunSupport][quote=Max Carter] What's the gameplay on shaco? Don't fight and try to get your enemies into a trap? - I don't like it :/ I prefer fighting... get in there and focus someone to melt it... '-'[/quote] Shaco's gameplay is infinitely more complex then that. It always always ALWAYS depends on the actual fight situation. There's no specific guideline to when you get into the fight except that you'd better be a master juker. That's why so many people misinterpret Shaco - He's not like most champions, there's no basic "Step A B C" method with him to ensure you do well; you have to rely on your own experience and intuition. -Most people assume its easy, go in, get melted, then allies go and qq on the forums. But yeah, if you're looking for someone who can just rush into battle and fight, Shaco is definitely not for you. Master Yi isn't either - Unless you have an extremely good premade who can set up for you to enter and do clean-up action. If you really enjoy fighting, I'd say [[Lee Sin]] is your best pick. Auto-attacks are specifically weaved into his play style with [[Flurry]] and his other (Q, W, E, R) abilities really make you feel get martial-arts based adrenaline rush. His Q and W give him lots of room to jump in and out of fights, and then back in again. Stonewall008 has LOTS of teambattle videos on him - Best to check them out for oodles of helpful info. Otherwise - [[Gangplank]] or [[Tryndamere]] are the next top picks for "fighters" who auto-attack. GP - Get a few hits, and the target will be slowed permanently. [[Parrley]] hits a lot when it crits, and [[Remove Scurvy]] will bail you out of a lot of situations. [[Cannon Barrage]] is high in utility in being able to help out allies or defend turrets from across the map. Trynd - Very simple on the surface, but difficult to play when you actually try him. Knowing when to enter the fight is key - [[Mocking Shout]] only reduces AD for people facing the other way, so it's better to enter from the back/side after enemies initiation. People prefer him in the jungle though due to less ranged harass, though laning with him is perfectly possible with enough experience. The biggest thing for a Tryndamere player is when to retreat and [[Spinning Slash]] away, and when to tap [[Undying Rage]] and keep fighting. Saving your ultimate and being able to make a judgment call on a bad fight is one thing every Trynd needs to learn to do well.[/quote]

[quote=DuffTime]With Yi, your tank should initiate from the front, and you come in from the side or back and kill the ranged carry, and then either the AP or the Support. He can carry really hard but he's incredibly gear reliant so you'll need to farm well and get some tankiness and some damage.[/quote]

[quote=JunSupport]@DuffTime: That's assuming you have easy access to the ranged carry and your team is strong enough to initiate properly. Master Yi is in the same boat as Shaco for entering team fights - Extreme timing dependency. Your team needs to be able to handle a 4v5 without getting killed for at least 3~5 seconds before a good Master Yi can enter the fight. Otherwise Master Yi gets focused - He always does. That's why you never see a Master Yi in a tournament. He relies too much on allies to initiate and can't do anything productive during then; except split-push, but that means you need teleport and THAT means you give up Flash because all remotely viable Master Yi players jungle.[/quote]

[quote=DuffTime]I agree for the most part, because nobody builds Master Yi with the "Meta golems" build which actually suits him very well. Farming up that much gear is hard in the jungle and you'll be moderately useless for most of the game. Once you've got full gear though you can initiate at the same time as the team, because you'll have like 4k HP and decent resistances. I don't however agree that he is like Shaco, because Yi can be built rather tanky and still blow up a squishy immediately, while Shaco has to be squishier to blow a squishy up. Also slow not having effect on Yi make that task a lot easier as well.[/quote]

[quote=JunSupport]I've seen a Shaco build [[Warmog's Armor]] once after the the patch that made the clone show items. Followed by [[Guardian Angel]] at end game - He had PD + IE + Madreds + Mercs. It was excruciating difficult to deal with him when we weren't sure which is which because just killing the clone would take 3~5 seconds of dps if it wasn't a 4+ ally focus. If you think Shaco can't build tanky, you're horribly mistaken. Shaco's build is as diverse as his play style is difficult.[/quote]

[quote=DuffTime]I'm not saying he can't build tanky, he's just "Generally speaking" not as good at building tanky as a champion like Yi. His kit doesn't cater to it quite as well. I actually personally think Shaco could potentially be somewhat decent as a tanky DPS. You simply wouldn't use your shiv active, and keep it just for the slowing effect.[/quote]

[quote=JunSupport]Actually, he is. [[Hallucinate]] makes a tanky Shaco twice as effective as a tanky Yi because clone can also be used to absorb high levels of CC and/or damage with the right timing.[/quote]

[quote=DuffTime]Well he's quite simply not as good as Yi at being a tanky DPS, and he wouldn't do as much with being a tanky DPS, but he does seem to have legitimate potential, at least more than he does when built any other way, in that category.[/quote]

[quote=Max Carter]Yeah, I found this problem on Yi too, all you guys mentioned: -Need be junling -No teleport = very hard backdoor and 4x5 battle -Get focused SO FUCKING FAST -I always walk around and get in from behind, The game I did better I was getting ashe in 3 hits, she saw me and ran, I just alpha and bam, 2 crits = dead, but someone appears and bam = dead... Jax with that jump, or nasus with Q, was like half of my health, i wasn't with a tanky build... Already used [[gangplank]], don't like him, not for me... and [[tryndamere]] i would fell so fucking greedy. I love [[Master Yi]]: Alpha is awesome, "i'll get you *alpha* *crit crit crit* *enemy dead*", his ult: attack speed and movement speed, you're a beast, without building attack speed!, and that wuju, god, it's and infinity edge boost! But yi jungler isn't that good... only with red... am I right? [[lee sin]] seems pretty cool, and should be jungling, right? I kinda don't like jungling :/ I "loose" 1 summoner spell... [[renekton]] is more a tanky dps carrier or an off-tank 2º tanker? like him too, and he's on the lane :D [[irelia]] is strong? I mean, that W with true damage... she seems veeeeeery strong... junling yi - jungling lee sin - laning renekton - maybe irelia... almost there xD[/quote]