Singed OP?

[quote=Searz]^While I agree that FoN is better than BV most of the time, I don't agree with putting off Rylai. The utility you get from a 4.5second AOE slow that can be applied pretty much constantly is incredible. And not to mention the 30% slow on targets you Fling. 21utility has gives you the ability to use 2 quint slots for other things, while allowing you to use summoners and spells more often. I do not see that as worse than 21defense because dodge (while good) is not something that is set in stone..[/quote]

[quote=JunSupport]@Searz: To get to use [[Fling]], you must get to your target first. To apply the slow on Rylai's through [[Poison Trail]], you must be behind your target. See the contradiction here? Rylai's doesn't not help you toss people around. In only more thoroughly secures a flung target. As for masteries, utility or defense, MS quints are set in stone to me. Using them for other things seems highly negligible compared to move speed. Defensive masteries also give you [[Veteran Scars]] for early game, and [[Ardor]] to scale with any of RoA, Rylai's, WoTA, and [[Insanity Potion]]. I also see little merit in having [[Presence of the Master]] for Singed. Using [[Ghost]] or [[Teleport]] more often is nice, but it's not something that could constantly put yourself on the advantage like [[Tenacity]] or [[Nimbleness]]. And lest we forget, having those extra points in [[Meditation]] or [[Utility Mastery]] isn't all that helpful either. (2~3 extra mp5, or 15% more time on blue buff or red buff on tank that stacks mana... oh boy!) From a purely theorycrafting stand-point, the utility tree wastes more points then the defensive tree for Singed.[/quote]

[quote=Searz][quote=JunSupport] See the contradiction here?[/quote] No, I do not.. I just said that Rylai is awesome and that I love it on Singed. How am I contradicting anything with that statement? O.o [quote]As for masteries, utility or defense, MS quints are set in stone to me. Using them for other things seems highly negligible compared to move speed.[/quote] Using them for HP5 (while getting a little extra MS from utility) allows for a stronger lane presence. [quote]From a purely theorycrafting stand-point, the utility tree wastes more points then the defensive tree for Singed.[/quote] It does, but I'm still convinced that the stronger laning utility provides makes up for how it falls off into lategame.[/quote]

[quote=JunSupport]@Searz: I wasn't saying you contradicted me. I'm saying Rylai's helpfulness contradicts the helpfulness Singed actually needs. The moment that is most important for Singed: [color=darkviolet]-Those few seconds when you have to GUN IT, chase down a target, and fling them into your bloodthirsty teammates.[/color] That's the moment I focus utility on. It's why I feel Rylai's isn't a core, and why I get full defense masteries. That's the moment where your set-up truly counts. That 3% [[Quickness]] isn't comparable to the 10% [[Nimbleness]] when you're eating 3~5 auto-attacks and loads of CC a second from 2~4 other enemies while making a bee-line for the enemy MVP/Squishy. Maximizing this moment, to me, is more important then increasing what I see as a manageable lane. I've never felt Singed had difficult lane. [[Strength of Spirit]], [[Veteran Scars]], and a boots + 3 pot start generally have me sitting in lane until level 4~6. Even against the toughest solos, I always have a [[Teleport]] that guarantees I miss no exp until level6~8. At which point, I can pop [[Insanity Potion]] just for the health regen in dire situations. By then, I have my [icon=Catalyst the Protector size=16] Catalyst, and sometimes Merc's, and it's smooth sailing until mid and late game begin.[/quote]

[quote=Searz]@JunSupport I've been playing some more 21 defense and I think you might be right about it being better. It's not a big difference, but I do think it's better. I think I might add FoN to my core items too. That means I'll have ROA, Rylai and FoN as core (ROA since I'm getting FoN over BV).[/quote]

[quote=JEFFY40HANDS][quote=JunSupport] @Searz: To get to use [[Fling]], you must get to your target first. To apply the slow on Rylai's through [[Poison Trail]], you must be IN FRONT of your target. See the contradiction here? Rylai's doesn't/does not (removed double negative) help you toss people around. It only more thoroughly secures a flung target. As for masteries, utility or defense, MS quints are set in stone for me. Using them (Quint slots) for other things seems highly negligible compared to move speed for Singed. (improved sentence structure and clarity) Using defensive masteries also gives you [[Veteran Scars]] for early game, and [[Ardor]] to scale with any (of the following) RoA, Rylai's, WoTA, and/or [[Insanity Potion]]. I also see little merit in having [[Presence of the Master]] for Singed. Using [[Ghost]] or [[Teleport]] more often is nice, but it's not something that could constantly put yourself in the advantage like [[Tenacity]] or [[Nimbleness]]. Aditonally, less we forget; having those extra points in [[Meditation]] or [[Utility Mastery]] isn't all that helpful. (2~3 extra mp5, or 15% more time on blue buff or red buff on a tank that stacks mana... oh boy!) From a purely theorycrafting (based) stand-point, the utility tree wastes more points than the defensive tree for Singed. [/quote] Fixed because I'm bored at work. Nothing personal just killing time Jun :)[/quote]

[quote=Searz]^Lol, you changed his lest to less. It's supposed to say lest. Fail :P[/quote]

[quote=JEFFY40HANDS]Oh nu...*shrugs*[/quote]

[quote=JunSupport]So sorry that I make typos while being sleep deprived. Alert the authorities! And, you're wrong about how you need to apply Rylai's. If you're IN FRONT of the target, they'll obviously be moving back to get the hell away from you. You need to already be BEHIND them, relative to their pushing towards your Nexus, so that the poison trail cuts off their escape. @Searz: Yes, you're right. It's not a big difference. Masteries aren't suppose to cause too huge of an impact, they're just to differentiate strategies and players to add more variation and flavour to the game. But it feels better, because it's the difference that counts. :3[/quote]

[quote=JEFFY40HANDS]Lol...Well I guess when I play Singed I'm just always being chased by people and seeing them die...So it makes sense to me that you need to be in front of them. If you're behind them all you'll end up doing is trying to catch them (not too hard as Singed) but you should essentially always be moving in a way to block their path. Being behind them does nothing if you don't catch them. It's simple Singed's Poison Trail drops behind Singed. THE LITERAL way to apply said posion requires you to be in fron of them (unless they're walking through it or you're running circles around them) And I said it was nothing personal, no need to go all butt hurt about it. Anyway I made my point, added clarity to your "sleep deprived" ramblings and still somehow struck some sort of nerve...IDK why but alright.[/quote]