Singed OP?

[quote=DuffTime]Rylai's is the only item on Singed I would say is must-buy status, Nighthawk.[/quote]

[quote=Nighthawk]Actually I would say the only must buy item on Singed is Cata, or Philo stone. One of those you def need. RainMan doesn't build Rylai's, for example.[/quote]

[quote=NicknameMy]Must item on Singed: [[Rylai's Crystal scepter]](HP, CC, and you can clear minion waves with 1 lvl 5 [[Poison Trail]], nothing can top this) Viable Items on Singed: Boost HP: [[Rod of Ages]],[[warmog's armor]] Boost Armor: [[Frozen Heart]](not [[randuin's omen]], [[Frozen Heart]] is in combination with [[Rylai's Crystal scepter]] any way better, item slows doesn't stack. On top of that you have [[Mega Adhesive]]. I think even [[thornmail]]>[[randuin's omen]]), [[sunfire cape]], [[Ninja Tabi]] Boost Magicresist: [[Force of Nature]], [[Banshee's Veil]], [[Mercury's Treads]] All items are viable. You have only to build them against your enemy.[/quote]

[quote=theBMB]^thank you can we end this stupid argument now?[/quote]

[quote=JunSupport][quote=Searz] I've had great success with 0/9/21, I think it's about as strong as 21 def overall.[/quote] You have to go past "9" to get the Dodge masteries in the defensive tree. Those are what make the difference on Tank Singed. With Utility masteries, you get to ghost/teleport more, move about a fraction faster then normal, and have a little more mana regen and casting? Doesn't seem very worth while to me. It's "good" but not the best. The 10% MS buffs while getting auto-attacked, negating entire auto-attacks, and 4% damage-reduction are significantly helpful where it counts. Not to mention, that 4% means you can afford to build less tanky and more offensive with stuff like [[Rylai's Crystal Scepter]], [[Will of the Ancients]], and [[Rod of Ages]]. And to me, the only core Singed items are [[Catalyst the Protector]], [[Mercury's Treads]], and [[Force of Nature]]. Everything else depends on the enemy team comp. -Catalyst lets you hold your lane against the worst match-up's, AND can be built into either RoA or BV, which is fantastic. -Mercury's Treads aren't really debatable due to its synergy with [[Insanity Potion]] -FoN gives movement speed, which makes it the best magic-resist item for Singed. If you don't plan on getting FoN, you're building Singed badly. Everything else isn't necessarily an "always buy it" item. [[Rylai's Crystal Scepter]] is not core (on [u]Tank Singed[/u]) because it doesn't boost your armor or magic resist, and the slow is negligible against certain team compositions. (i.e.: One full of gap-closers that would make that slows kind of pointless) AP Singed on the other hand - Can't go nuts without this.[/quote]

[quote=Nighthawk]Actually, BV is a stupidly good item for Singed instead of FoN, and is possibly better if there are ignites on the enemy team. BV is also better if going AP Singed or tanky dps Singed.[/quote]

[quote=JunSupport]@Nighthawk: Explain why. From my experience, the speed from FoN is invaluable. The health regen in combination with [[Strength of Spirit]], [[Insanity Potion]]'s health regen, and your overall health total make Ignite ignorable. It also trumphs BV in terms of magic resist. BV is only effective if you stop a significantly strong spell from the enemy; like [[Dark Binding]]. If it gets poked off by a disposable spell, like [[Disintegrate]], [[Mystic Shot]], or [[Volley]], Banshee's Veil drops significantly in value. BV's only good if you decide not to build Rod of Ages. (you never want to bother building two catalyst, not effective purchasing) But even when building BV, FoN is still core. You just build it significantly later while focusing on armor like [[Glacial Shroud]] or [[Sunfire Cape]], because after finishing your Veil, you have sufficient magic resist for the mid game. From my experience, BV is not better then FoN. Not on Singed. It can be better then RoA, but FoN's speed boost has always made BV only equal or inferior, never better, as a Singed item in all circumstances.[/quote]

[quote=Nighthawk]First off, BV helps more with Nukes. Almost all Carries who do magic damage are Nukes, cutting 1 spell out is a significant investment. Second off, BV adds a significant amount of health as well as MR (around 500 I believe) and allows you to shrug off their hard CC even more when you dive their carry. FoN does help with that in MS, but your ult lasts 25 seconds and is around a 60 - 100 second cd if I recall correctly. 25 seconds is more then enough for 1 teamfight and potentially even the mopping up effort. Not to mention you have Ghost as well. If you took Rylai's, your slowing everyone and don't need much MS to catch up with them since they are slowed, not to mention if you really do need that you have an AoE slow. In short, it helps you stay alive better if your not going full tank, I lulz at 5 man ganks style. BV synergizes extremely well with tanky dps Singed, since basically only HARD CC will stop you, and BV is quite nice there, as is Cleanse/QSS. It also helps a ton more if your losing/underfarmed, etc. You can't guarantee that you'll fucking godmode every time you play Singed :([/quote]

[quote=Searz][quote=NicknameMy] Boost HP: [[warmog's armor]][/quote] No. ROA>Warmog because: [list] [*] Singed has GREAT AP ratios. They're among the best in the game, at way higher levels than most casters' ratios. [*] ROA is invaluable in the lane. [*] Singed's passive gives him a lot of free HP for building mana. He'll reach crazy levels of HP even without Warmog. Building AP/resistances/utility is better. [/list][/quote]

[quote=JunSupport][quote=Nighthawk] First off, BV helps more with Nukes. Almost all Carries who do magic damage are Nukes, cutting 1 spell out is a significant investment. Second off, BV adds a significant amount of health as well as MR (around 500 I believe) and allows you to shrug off their hard CC even more when you dive their carry. FoN does help with that in MS, but your ult lasts 25 seconds and is around a 60 - 100 second cd if I recall correctly. 25 seconds is more then enough for 1 teamfight and potentially even the mopping up effort. Not to mention you have Ghost as well. If you took Rylai's, your slowing everyone and don't need much MS to catch up with them since they are slowed, not to mention if you really do need that you have an AoE slow. In short, it helps you stay alive better if your not going full tank, I lulz at 5 man ganks style. BV synergizes extremely well with tanky dps Singed, since basically only HARD CC will stop you, and BV is quite nice there, as is Cleanse/QSS. It also helps a ton more if your losing/underfarmed, etc. You can't guarantee that you'll fucking godmode every time you play Singed :( [/quote] Movement Speed is required so you can catch targets with [[Fling]]. [[Ghost]] is on a long cooldown, while [[Insanity Potion]] isn't necessarily enough when the enemy will naturally try to run away. You want to close the gap as quickly as possible, because even though you're Singed with high teancity, you still want to get your Fling off asap and win the fight for your team. You also don't always want to activate [[Insanity Potion]]. Sometimes, it's a small fight and you're saving your ultimate for a serious team battle. These more likely-to-occur mid game skirmishes are when you want that that extra passive speed from [[Force of Nature]] to always be there. And, [[Banshee's Veil]] does not let your shrug off CC. It absorbs 1 spell. Just 1. That's it. If they use a disposable spell, your hopes and dreams disappear like water down a drain. [[Mercury's Treads]] + [[Insanity Potion]] is what lets you shrug off CC. Banshee's Veil is more about survival, not busting through spells. That bubble is insignificant compared to the power of 40~55 Tenacity. Hard CC like [[Dazzle]] or [[Curse of the Sad Mummy]] doesn't stop Singed. The only thing that seriously stops him is floor-based AoE slows like [[Void Ooze]] and [[Pillar of Filth]]. All other cc have durations which get greatly reduced by Singed's tenacity rates. Stuns, roots, on-hit slots, silences, they're all practically meaningless. The only other potential stopper is a good timed knock-back like [[Headbutt]]. The only way you counter that is through movement speed, being fast enough to catch up to your target even after getting throw back a distance. This is why I say, [u]from my experience[/u], [[Force of Nature]] is better. I'm experimented with Banshee's Veil during my games as Singed. Force of Nature opens up many build-paths for Singed because he needs that speed to let him [[Fling]] quickly and effectively. As for [[Rylai's Crystal Scepter]], if you're experienced with Singed, you'll eventually not need it. Good Singed players can rely on their [[Mega Adhesive]] to get the job done. The negligible hp and ap of Rylai's combined with the strength of a well placed slow pool puts Rylai's solidly off the core item list. If you land your adhesive correctly, you don't need that silly 15% slow. But, I suppose if you're the type to be under-farmed, you're probably not landing your W's probably either.[/quote]