Should a team that got a challenger kid onto a smurf to knowingly break/subvert the rules be allowed to play in the tournament?
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i was only waiting for you to ask
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i only read the first page, more focused on the topic opener.
what was presented is suggestive, not proof.
if rules do not provide sufficient reaction, indeed they should be changed. prefereably to something better, at least clearer.
just removing the player and not disqualifying a team is a matter of policy. i don't mind if it's a one time thing. if repeated, then i agree there should be more drastic measures. i don't see proof of intended foul play, neither if he just wanted to participate for fun.
We brought this to the admins attention. They handled it incorrectly, we said we'd take it to the court of public opinion.
it's fine if you'd like to make it public, i saw throats original post. however there is a difference between what was written as rule and what you think it's fair. unfortunately you are in a highly biased position. if you want the rules to be different you have to wait for the tournament to end (either way, rules shouldn't change mid tournament.)
you signed up, you agreed to the rules posted at that time, at least.
you might not agree with them, but with policy there is hardly a clear right or wrong.
imo, if there is proof of challenger smurf, that player should be removed. if there is proof of intended foul play (deliberately ignoring rules) the team and respective players should be banned from this and maybe future tournaments. last one you will hardly get.
what was presented is suggestive, not proof.
if rules do not provide sufficient reaction, indeed they should be changed. prefereably to something better, at least clearer.
just removing the player and not disqualifying a team is a matter of policy. i don't mind if it's a one time thing. if repeated, then i agree there should be more drastic measures. i don't see proof of intended foul play, neither if he just wanted to participate for fun.
C4 Lasty wrote:
We brought this to the admins attention. They handled it incorrectly, we said we'd take it to the court of public opinion.
it's fine if you'd like to make it public, i saw throats original post. however there is a difference between what was written as rule and what you think it's fair. unfortunately you are in a highly biased position. if you want the rules to be different you have to wait for the tournament to end (either way, rules shouldn't change mid tournament.)
you signed up, you agreed to the rules posted at that time, at least.
you might not agree with them, but with policy there is hardly a clear right or wrong.
imo, if there is proof of challenger smurf, that player should be removed. if there is proof of intended foul play (deliberately ignoring rules) the team and respective players should be banned from this and maybe future tournaments. last one you will hardly get.
I'm sorry Pheyniex the proof is evident. If they had signed up using the kids challenger account one would assume that they just didn't read the rules. Because they signed him up on a smurf, it's clear to everyone that didn't ride the short bus to school that they knew what they were doing. They actively tried to circumvent/cheat the tournament rules. I'm not asking that the rules be changed mid tournament. I'm asking that they be enforced. Foul play has been proven, they should be ejected.
the rule is not clear to me.
circumvent is different from cheating, since it implies a lack of coverage and/or clear understanding of the rule.
i'm trying to be impartial: how can you clearly state a player is challenger when he owns accounts that are not? shoulnd't it be written "if a player owns a challenger account..." or even "if a player owns more than one account in diamon and above..."?
as a community member, i'm more concerned about the "active member" requirement that has been noticeably neglected since i've never seen anyone associated with top teams around the forum (and guides, for that matter).
i understand that mobafire has an interest in welcoming bigger names to it's tournament, but this problem (in the former paragraph) goes, again, to the matter of where you draw the line of who can participate in a comunity cup and still make it interesting for the whole community (mobafire and LoL in general).
circumvent is different from cheating, since it implies a lack of coverage and/or clear understanding of the rule.
i'm trying to be impartial: how can you clearly state a player is challenger when he owns accounts that are not? shoulnd't it be written "if a player owns a challenger account..." or even "if a player owns more than one account in diamon and above..."?
as a community member, i'm more concerned about the "active member" requirement that has been noticeably neglected since i've never seen anyone associated with top teams around the forum (and guides, for that matter).
i understand that mobafire has an interest in welcoming bigger names to it's tournament, but this problem (in the former paragraph) goes, again, to the matter of where you draw the line of who can participate in a comunity cup and still make it interesting for the whole community (mobafire and LoL in general).
I'd say a solid 95+% of participants don't use mobafire so it's safe to say this is not a community cup. I'll just vote with my feet and quit tourneys after this one. Not worth the aggravation. Circumventing the rules = cheating.
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throatslasher wrote:
I'd say a solid 95+% of participants don't use mobafire so it's safe to say this is not a community cup. I'll just vote with my feet and quit tourneys after this one. Not worth the aggravation. Circumventing the rules = cheating.
so, you ended up quitting tournaments even though you were against setting a bar on diamond or even dividing them? i really don't get you. i had suggested a 2 tournament profile (one for high end players and another for the comunity) everyone whined about it.
if there is a chance of circumvention, it's the rulemaker's fault for doing such (deliberately or not) bad rule, and possibly the participants for accepting them. might be unfair because you are not challenger in some account, but seems to be allowed. if the rule was clear, i'd have a different position on the matter.
anyway, i hope you remember not to use any loopholes when paying your taxes.
my ruling for public opinion? you get points for sharing this with the comunity, but lose them for wanting it your way no matter what.
Usurp has a bad rule on his side, and gets a bad image for lazyness.
Mobafire loses points for not acting preemptively, swiftly and reasonably.
Honestly, you are an idiot on this topic.
No challenger or professional. What's so difficult about that rule.
It's not the rules' fault if someone cheats. Your logic is about as coherent as Lindsay Lohan after a week long binge of cocaine and ****s. And also after she had a lobotomy. Smurfing to circumvent a rule is cheating. What's so hard about that?
No challenger or professional. What's so difficult about that rule.
It's not the rules' fault if someone cheats. Your logic is about as coherent as Lindsay Lohan after a week long binge of cocaine and ****s. And also after she had a lobotomy. Smurfing to circumvent a rule is cheating. What's so hard about that?
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throatslasher wrote:
after a week long binge of cocaine and ****s. And also after she had a lobotomy.
Honestly, that part was unnecessary. Also, completely agree; if you break the rules
throatslasher wrote:
Honestly, you are an idiot on this topic.
i know it's hard to apreciate idiots.
throatslasher wrote:
No challenger or professional. What's so difficult about that rule.
the difficulty is the fact that the rule is not written that way. that is your interpretation.
throatslasher wrote:
It's not the rules' fault if someone cheats. Your logic is about as coherent as Lindsay Lohan after a week long binge of cocaine and ****s. And also after she had a lobotomy. Smurfing to circumvent a rule is cheating. What's so hard about that?
if the rule is flawed you can't blame someone for using tools at their disposal so they are not affected by it. the rule is ambiguous/unclear or simply bad enough to allow it, imo.
you can try to offend me as much as you want. i expressed my opinion (obviously not well taken) and you expressed yours. i'm not a mobafire executive/staff to enforce better rules (or even enforce the rules, if you really want to go that far), while you want to while not having the status. I already said you are both in a very biased position, regarding this matter.
you might have a very clear idea of what a player is (i presume your answer is the person, regardless of how many accounts he has, making him a challenger if any of his accounts are chalenger) while it can be interpreted as something else like a challenger account, but not any other that is not. again, the rule does not state anything regarding this.
silly, unfortunate, sad, but true.
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Since the Challenger player subscribed with a smurf account it's clear he was aware of the rules, and so was his team. This should be enough reason to ban the entire team for once, so all of them are completely clear with the rules.
IF the Challenger player would have used his Challenger account, it would have been different because it would be possible that they just didn't read the rules. In that case, banning only the player from the tournament would have been enough.