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S7 Nocturne

Creator: TheSofa November 13, 2016 8:41pm
TheSofa
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep November 13, 2016 8:41pm | Report
Hey all!

I've been wondering about a couple of itemization choices on Nocturne. I've read PsiGuard's guide and it seems pretty comprehensive, except for a few of these questions:

Which is better? Personally I tend to go Bloodrazor for the attack speed because it works well with Nocturne's kit, but I've also seen scenarios where I'd rather had the extra damage and cdr from Warrior.


Lethality. Since s7 arrived, I'm not sure about these new lethality items. Although I often find myself going for duskblade (because it works well with Nocturne's kit), it feels like the only way to run lethality is to build all three items. Also, Edge of Night kind of overlaps with Nocturne's W, Shroud of Darkness.

Also, how good is Poacher's Dirk?

What about a bruiser/tanky Nocturne? I've tried a couple of games where I went Warrior >> Youmuu's >> Steraks >> Titanic >> Maw before and it worked out ok.

Thanks in advance,
Sofa
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I'd really really appreciate it if someone helped me! Thanks!
PsiGuard
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Hopefully I'm not going to sound like a broken record, but I'd be happy to expand a bit on what I think of these if you find it helpful. If you're looking for a second opinion then no problem.

I tried to make Bloodrazor work (and some players do, like Super Metroid who builds Skirmisher's Sabre - Bloodrazor into Trinity Force), but it's just not valuable enough to me. Without AD (and lethality to some extent), you simply don't have enough burst damage to threaten low health targets. Opting for more DPS forces you into a different playstyle - one that I find less effective. Could just be preference, but I always build Warrior now.



Duskblade of Draktharr: Seems okay. Really hard to get more than one proc of the true damage off, so I find it a tad underwhelming. Currently I don't prioritize it very highly but it's not bad.

Edge of Night: I'm pretty sure this one's underrated. It's super hard to deal with two spell shields, especially if you catch someone alone. This tends to be my opener most games.

Youmuu's Ghostblade: Decent, but now that I can reach the CDR cap with Maw of Malmortius (which is a stronger item) I don't build it as much. It's not nearly as strong without the active attack speed, but lethality is lethality and there aren't many other options. Movespeed is nice for sticking power. I usually buy it for the CDR if I don't build Maw.

Poacher's Dirk: Feels too greedy imo. There's no guarantee you can counter jungle three times to upgrade it. Sometimes you just don't have the map control to do so, and that's a risk I'm not keen to take on a champion with no escape.



Sterak's Gage: Not awful, but I don't think it's better than other items. Basically I just get a Guardian Angel and Maw of Malmortius instead. If they don't have enough magic damage to warrant Maw, I get Randuin's Omen (and maybe GA as well) so there's never a time where I build this.

Maw of Malmortius: Really really good still. I'm currently favoring Edge of Night first as I think it's a better opener, but this is probably one of the strongest items available to Nocturne right now. I enjoy playing against heavy AP teams because then I can build Edge + Maw + GA.

Randuin's Omen: Still the best armor item, though I don't build it as often anymore since GA is usually enough survivability for me. More damage (and late game lifesteal) seems to be more useful rather than transitioning to a pseudo-bruiser.

Thornmail: I stopped building this a while ago. You have more threat with a real damage item and you have more survivability with a real defensive item (like randuins, GA, even sterak's). This item is meant for tankier champions imo.

Titanic Hydra: I don't build nearly enough health to make this worth it. Maybe if you went for like a bruiser build with bloodrazor, cleaver and titanic plus other defensive health items it could be useful. As it stands, Ravenous suits my damage-focused build better.



Overall, if you're going bruiser go Enchantment: Bloodrazor for DPS. You won't have much burst anyway so you might as well get an item that scales better than warrior and is more slot efficient since it scales off enemy HP. Attack speed for cleaver/titanic procs is good too.

Currently I feel like burstier builds work better, so that's what I'm using personally. Nocturne's not too bad with tankier builds but I usually end up feeling I should have just played Lee Sin or something at that point.

Hope this was helpful, if not I hope you get a second opinion. ^_^

Edit: One more think, don't stack Maw of Malmortius and Sterak's Gage. Once one passive triggers, both go on cooldown (which sucks) so it's a huge waste of potential.
Thanks to Jovy for the sig!
TheSofa
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Hi Psiguard!

Thanks so much for the reply - I'll definitely try your Warrior > Edge of Night > Maw > GA build!

One more question: what do you finish your build with?
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Usually Ravenous Hydra when it goes late, sometimes another defensive item.

Here's what I'm currently using, though of course I might tweak the build(s) in the future if I figure out something better:

Thanks to Jovy for the sig!
Embracing
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i don't rly agree with your build paths. i think if you want youmuu you're better off getting it first after your boots or else you're better off with cleaver w/ bulkiness and more useful arpen. youmuu just has a really smooth build path and is a strong early item. cleaver is much better going into mid game. last item hydra is kind of weird as well.

im really liking the youmuu into duskblade or into tanky (dmp ga).

kind of off topic but noc is actually in a really good spot right now. he feels really strong w/ the jungle changes.
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Hi Embracing -

You're suggesting {Warrior > boots > youmuus > duskblade > tanky} or {Warrior > Boots > Youmuus > Tanky}?

Also, when is it possible for noc to kill all the small raptors with a Q and a umbra blade auto?
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yeh
TheSofa
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So Phylol made a video recently recommending the following build:

Blue smite - warrior > Youmuus > Boots > Dead man's > Titanic > Sterak's.

This build seems really tanky but is definitely a bruiser build. I'm guessing it would somewhat work, but how am I supposed to play it?

Also, does the Bloodrazor > triforce build work?
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It's basically a matter of how you play the game.

Going Enchantment: Bloodrazor gives you much needed early game attack speed and is extremely good on Nocturne. I am a mastery 7 and always take this and because of it I can easily secure kills by also taking Ghost and making good use of my Unspeakable Horror. Late game the Enchantment: Bloodrazor and the build that follows will make you a team fighter and less of an assassin. What I mean by this is you'll generally be between your front line and back line either waiting for enemy to engage and then killing their carries with your ult or waiting for your team to engage and then killing their carries with your ult. You can also just hit the closest enemy like an adc would do and quickly kill them thanks to your attack speed and damage by this point. Basically what Enchantment: Bloodrazor does for you is it makes you a team fighter, meaning you can constantly stick in a fight to help your team win it.

Going Enchantment: Warrior is the decision you make when you want to be an assassin and not worry about your team. This also will help you fight off strong early game junglers who would destroy Nocturne if you went Enchantment: Bloodrazor. Basically this is the start of a build that is meant for looking for assassination opportunities and then leaving as soon as you get the kill. In a team fight you'll be looking to come in from the side or from behind the enemy. You'll be stalking the fight in the jungle waiting for the right moment to strike. As soon as you go in you'll back out.

These different strategies have to do with the attack speed and how much you have of it. More you have then the more sustain you have. If you go Enchantment: Bloodrazor it is best to build full life steal and just try to kill as much as you can. With this build you're choosing to be an on-hit champion and need life steal so you can kill people without dying since you'll be in the fight longer due to sacrificing damage for attack speed.

If you go Enchantment: Warrior you'll be building as much damage and lethality as you can, but also bruiser items like Black Cleaver because without that you'll be too easy to kill. Personally I deleted my build for this because I never use it so honestly forgot its optimal build path, but it will generally be a build similar to traditional Riven or Xin Zhao with some lethality.


Here's my normal build path:

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