Thoughts on the New Jungle?

[quote=Nighthawk][quote=Virtus] [quote=Nighthawk] [quote=JunSupport] @NightHawk: It was broken. You're just unaware of it. "I liked the game better the way it was." <- See your words? That's your silly human brain telling you "I DON'T LIKE CHANGE", nothing more. You have no way to properly justify why the old jungle was better. Just that you liked it. Let me try to break it down for you. "Riot went 'ok' and then nerfed the shit out of it, completely changing the point of the jungler." ^ Your words Here's what's wrong: What IS the point of being a jungler? [color=#ffff00]The jungler's role is to merely be a champion who can stay in the jungle to acquire resources, as opposed to the lane.[/color] NOTHING MORE. Anything else is merely a footnote from the metagame. Not something intended for the core game designs. ^ Anything you feel is a part of being "a jungler" is not true. It's just a lingering guideline to a past metagame. Something the players worked out, not what Riot had planned. Ganking, Counter-jungling, Buff Control - All of those things are tasks everyone is suppose to take part in. It's not all the jungler's job. Those tasks becoming unique to the jungler only resulted from there being nothing to do after you've cleared the jungle. Oh look, that's what they changed - Jungle creeps respawn more. The previous jungle WAS broken. Once you hit level4~5 you had to gank, or end up falling behind. That meant the lanes would usually expect a gank, and play extremely passively. Riot doesn't want that passivity. So they're giving the jungler more options besides ganking. Ergo, staying in the jungle to farm. [/quote] LOOOOOOL. THIS POST. OMG. LOOOOOOOL. Let me respond. First of all, I didn't know liking something better the way it was was a crime. You can tell me all you want that current TF is much better then beta TF. However, I preferred beta TF. Whatever my reasons, I preferred it. You CLEARLY have NEVER played as a jungler before. EVER. It takes very little rudimentary knowledge of the jungle to know what to do. The jungler was NEVER JUST about being a '4th lane'. The jungler has ALWAYS been supposed to gank and be aggressive. It ADDS fun to the game. It does NOT take AWAY fun. DERRRRRP. It was ALWAYS the responsibility of the JUNGLER to counter jungle. Mid and top CAN counter jungle. But it was not the design that they SHOULD counter jungle. Once you hit 4 or 5, you did not HAVE to gank. There were MANY option. You could continue to go wolves, wraiths golems and then gank. You could do dragon. You could counter jungle. What takes away fun from the game 'theoretically, because this was supposed to be Riot's take on the remake' is when junglers can do multiple routes and Gank whenever they felt like it. THAT adds passivity to the game because you have to be careful ALL the time, instead of just at 4 or 5. We all know it didn't work like that though, junglers can't gank at all anymore and even when they don't they fall behind the solo lanes. Please actually PLAY the new jungle, since it's quite obvious that you haven't. :3 [/quote] Lolwhat? I jungle, gank quite often (Lee Sin, Nocturne, Gangplank, Udyr, Karthus), and manage to keep up with at least the duo lanes by having successful ganks (repeat ganks if flash was burned). And who could do dragon at 4/5, because I certainly couldn't T__T I could only do it if I had Madred's and I successfully ganked bottom, with AD and support still alive. In the old patch, I ganked all of the time, not just after jungle clears. Level 2 with Lee Sin/JarvanIV OP, etc. Nocturne ganks at 3, or whenever they were necessary. And if I remember correctly, the jungle was pretty much the 4th lane, in that one acquired resources with it, but it also included ganks. However, when I am mid with an aggressive champ I gank top and bottom as much as I did while jungling. I am confused T__T [/quote] Key words: SUCCESSFUL GANKS. Ganks aren't always successful. If you gank and you aren't successful, you are now fucked up the ass because you could have been jungling during that time, and 80% of the time your gank won't work. Meaning it's safer to just jungle all day and only gank a little bit. If Riot buffs the exp and gold, then it will be ok, and at least it will be worth it to jungle all day. If you are an aggressive champion mid and you are ahead enough that you can do a successful gank top or bottom, that's fine. However if you play, say Veigar, would you really want to go gank top or bot when you can just farm your Q all day? It all depends on your playstyle. Jungling no longer depends on your playstyle at all atm. You either farm all day and fail, or have REALLY good ganks or you fail.[/quote]

[quote=JunSupport]@NightHawk: Okay, let me try this approach. Riot's staff are smarter then you. They are better equipped them you to survey and understand the metagame. What I've been saying is strictly based on how they're operating. I'm just being a parrot. Whatever you feel about the jungle - It's one player's thoughts. Riot can survey thousands upon thousands of games that go on every second. They have the interactions of millions of players in their data. You only have your own experiences. That's maybe 1000~2000 games? 2000 / ... oh idk, random number, 5 billion games in the last 6 monthes? What's your experience representative of? I say: Squat. Diddly-squat. Riot's gone through a lot of improvement as a game designer, and they sure as hell know the game better then you. :) They even have players of various ELOs to input for them, you can only experience your own ELO. They say it's broken - You're also biased because you've known no other way to play - By default, you're wrong. :) @Toshabi: My so called "god complex" only stems from the fact I'm using realistic data. I KNOW that I'm right, because I actually follow how Riot does things. I already know the answer to the questions I'm answering. Yeah, I'm an arrogant S.O.B. about it, but what person doesn't have personality flaws? I can tell you sure do. I'm perfectly okay with you outright insulting me, cause then people get to see what you're really like too. Difference is, I accept myself being a jerk on occasion. :) People who are asking questions like "Why'd Riot do this" or "Why'd Riot do that" - Try to answer it with their own experiences instead of doing their homework. It's like a kid trying to answer historical trivia when he's never had a history lesson. When we're strictly talking about statistics and facts - The one with the better data surveys wins.[/quote]

[quote=Nighthawk][quote=JunSupport] @NightHawk: Okay, let me try this approach. Riot's staff are smarter then you. They are better equipped them you to survey and understand the metagame. What I've been saying is strictly based on how they're operating. I'm just being a parrot. Whatever you feel about the jungle - It's one player's thoughts. Riot can survey thousands upon thousands of games that go on every second. They have the interactions of millions of players in their data. You only have your own experiences. That's maybe 1000~2000 games? 2000 / ... oh idk, random number, 5 billion games in the last 6 monthes? What's your experience representative of? I say: Squat. Diddly-squat. Riot's gone through a lot of improvement as a game designer, and they sure as hell know the game better then you. :) They even have players of various ELOs to input for them, you can only experience your own ELO. [/quote] Haha. I already said that I liked the old jungle better. However the new jungle has it's perks, like making Nasus jungle OP. Etc. Stonewall was one of the players they called in to test it. Stonewall has already publicly said he hates the jungle and that Riot should fix it, not to mention that he liked the old jungle better too. Riot probably has fixed it next patch. But whatever.[/quote]

[quote=Darcurse]Oh oh, I wanna ask god a question, too. Plzzz lemme, lemme!!! Sooooooooo.... Why did it take Riot actually more than a year to came up with a half-assed solution to moderate the total fucked up overload on EU servers? (Yeah I know its off-topic, but since I'm in presence of some "higher being" maybe I'm finally able to get some answers! So pls dont do sth hectically that will scare it away!)[/quote]

[quote=PotatisFarfar]@Jun They did a data survey, and most people are casual players. And casual players usually isn't outspoken. Hence you will hear a lot of complains around this new jungle.[/quote]

[quote=Luther3000][quote=PotatisFarfar] They did a data survey, and most people are casual players. [/quote] Whatever next, the sky is blue? =P[/quote]

[quote=Toshabi][quote=JunSupport] @Toshabi: I'm perfectly okay with you outright insulting me, cause then people get to see what you're really like too. Difference is, I accept myself being a jerk on occasion. :) [/quote] Hello juicy quote, say hello to my signature.[/quote]

[quote=Beeswarm17][quote=JunSupport] @Toshabi: I'm perfectly okay with you outright insulting me, cause then people get to see what you're really like too. Difference is, I accept myself being a jerk on occasion. :) [/quote] [quote=Toshabi] Hello juicy quote, say hello to my signature. [/quote] Lol, he has no idea how you really are. XD[/quote]

[quote=React]Personally I think shaco is goin g to excel with this jungle route... I mean double buff in the first 2~3 minutes of the game along with level 3 is just saying GANK spree....[/quote]

[quote=Fictionized]Skarner > All I specialize in Jungling and from what I've seen. Skarner is simply supreme in the new jungle. Literally just incredibly supreme. Shaco can try all he wants but if you got some brains you can outright beat Shaco in every way in a match. I really don't know what it is, but Skarner just outshines other junglers right now. The only potential jungler that I'd see taking him down is Udyr.[/quote]