No real point in making guides on this site

[quote=PsiGuard][quote=Xenasis] I don't care how my guides fare for the most part, nor do I ever look at guides on this site for how to play a champion, though it pains me to see bad guides rise higher than good ones. [/quote] Then you're just perpetuating the cycle. If all the writers of "good guides" (assuming your guides are actually good, since you seem to think that nobody else knows what they're doing) don't care enough to make their guide detailed, correct and 100% up to date, we will never have any good guides on the site. I don't understand how you can complain about the lack of good guides if you don't bother to do something about it. I was on solomid.net the other day looking at some of the top-rated guides for a couple champions (can't remember specifics or I'd link you). 90% of the guides were still on S1 masteries and I couldn't find a single guide that was updated with relevant information on the new jungle, including guides from actual professional players. If all the good players don't care enough to update their guides, we're never going to have any good ones at all. [quote=Xenasis] I saw a wonderful Udyr guide not too far back, it was at 38%, even though it had Jatt's runes (arguably the best Udyr player in the world), a really good build (started with Wit's End, etc), and had an extensive explanation, which included a video and valuable information. It pained me to see it downvoted (edit: can't find it now or I'd link it, may have been archived). I think there should be some way for good players (or people with high confirmed elo) to have more heavily weighted votes. I haven't played ranked in S2 myself - so I can assure you it isn't from some sort of self-absorbed intent, though I'd still love to see it happen. [/quote] That's what the scouting system is for. Granted, it has its share of flaws, but I'd say it's a big step up from the old vet rec system. If you find a great guide that isn't at its deserved score, go nominate it in the Scout forums, or on the public thread that jhoijhoi made for that purpose. Nothing is ever going to get done on this site if we sit here criticizing the system while there are ways to improve it.[/quote]

[quote=DuffTime]I don't think that was an accurate analysis of his first statement there. :P[/quote]

[quote=Xenasis][quote=PsiGuard] Then you're just perpetuating the cycle. If all the writers of "good guides" (assuming your guides are actually good, since you seem to think that nobody else knows what they're doing) don't care enough to make their guide detailed, correct and 100% up to date, we will never have any good guides on the site. I don't understand how you can complain about the lack of good guides if you don't bother to do something about it. I was on solomid.net the other day looking at some of the top-rated guides for a couple champions (can't remember specifics or I'd link you). 90% of the guides were still on S1 masteries and I couldn't find a single guide that was updated with relevant information on the new jungle, including guides from actual professional players. If all the good players don't care enough to update their guides, we're never going to have any good ones at all. [/quote] Because there's simply no point. Sure, if I was to create a good guide, it would be better than the guide currently at the top (as you say, detailed, correct and up to date), but as I say, if it's different than the top rated guide it will be downvoted, and all of that effort is for nothing. I've seen countless guides fall to the same fate, I mentioned that Udyr guide, that's a perfect example of it happening. I'd have put far more effort into my champion guides if I thought they would actually be read. As I say, the build is usually the most important part anyway. Anyone can ramble on about Tiamat being the best item in the game, as a quick example. Also, I NEVER implied that "nobody else knows what they're doing". There's a good 10-15% of people with good guides on the site. My guides aren't perfect, far from it. Nowadays I don't put as much effort into them as I did. I was in the process of making a jungle Olaf guide that was fairly detailed, themed, etc, as my first proper champion guide that's properly detailed, though the jungle change really made me lose interest in Olaf in the jungle in general. I don't have patience to write a good guide if it's going to be downvoted anyway. It's not just "LOL MY GUIDES THE BEST EVERYONE ELSE'S ARE SHIT", either. Any good guide can be downvoted just because it isn't like the top rated one. Solomid doesn't exactly have amazing guides 100% of the time, though pro players have their guides on that site. You can be assured of the best of the best. People are STILL ADAPTING to the new jungle. It's got completely different mechanics. You can't expect people to instantly change their guides - though even then, the guides are still almost completely relevant. Take Udyr, he STILL starts with Boots, he STILL maxes Phoenix, and he STILL clears the same, but takes wolves after wraiths. I'd rather have a good guide for a champion with an outdated general area (such as if it said something about buying SotD to counter Jax dodge) any day of the week. You can pick that up anywhere, you can know how to jungle in the new jungle without insight, for example. It's wolves > blue > wraiths > wolves for any jungler that isn't control, and Wraiths/Golems > Red for any control jungler. It really doesn't vary unless you're Shaco/Mao. It's a bit different if a guide's recommending dodge boots for Jax 100% of the time (for example) even though they won't exist. [quote=Xenasis] That's what the scouting system is for. Granted, it has its share of flaws, but I'd say it's a big step up from the old vet rec system. If you find a great guide that isn't at its deserved score, go nominate it in the Scout forums, or on the public thread that jhoijhoi made for that purpose. Nothing is ever going to get done on this site if we sit here criticizing the system while there are ways to improve it. [/quote] I feel the scout system is extremely flawed. It doesn't take ANYTHING into account. ANY scout can recommend a guide or whatever. I can think of a few bad players who're scouts, though I won't name any names, it STILL doesn't take into account skill. Reputation takes nothing into account skill wise. Also, why is Duff not a Scout? There's a lot of anomalies. As for threads that are like "RECOMMEND GUIDES HERE FOLKS", that still won't help a 85% Annie guide (PLEASE NOTE: THIS ISN'T A REAL SITUATION, ALL HYPOTHETICAL. I HAVEN'T LOOKED AT THE ANNIE GUIDES. MERE EXAMPLE) topple the 92% monstrosity that sits there with Clarity, starting with a Doran's Ring, rushing a Mejai's and AA staff. A small percentage of people that vote on guides also visit these forums. It would certainly help to recommend it, though it will still barely, barely help it. I applaud people like Jhoi for making such threads for the community. It's a step forward, however small it may be. Edit: Just accidentally found that Udyr guide - [url]http://www.mobafire.com/league-of-legends/build/phoenix-jungle-udyr-get-this-bird-out-of-my-jungle-135523[/url] Though it's out dated now, it was well detailed (though concise rather than verbose), and had a correct build all the way through, though it was debatable, it was good.[/quote]

[quote=NinjaGinge]Might have to side with lugig. The top Twitch for example. Has some thousands of votes and will never be dethroned despite the fact that it is outdated as could be and a number of guides below it are far more informative.[/quote]

[quote=Nighthawk]Agree with Xen and Duff. As for solomid, it's community is generally smart enough to watch streams of the players making that build, which is where you get the most updated build items. Also, generally regardless of outdatedness, the featured builds on Solomid STILL work. For example The Rain Man's WW build hasn't been updated since S2 and the change on his Q, yet it still is probably the best WW build i've ever seen. I think though that on Mobafire, guides are sometimes a bit about popularity too, instead of actually wanting to share with the community what works for you. That's a pretty general statement, so don't hit me on the 'well no, popularity is nothing to mobafire since 80% of the top guides come from people who aren't popular' because it's not really true anymore. Looking at the top rated guides I see about 5 that aren't from 'popular' people on Mobafire. One of those recommends DPS Trundle and the other takes Clarity on Zilean and goes full AP. Duff's Trundle build is a full 10% below that, and Mowen's is also below that. Clearly popularity at Mobafire is a lot, but not everything, and some top rated guides are just dumb. Now where was I anyways...oh right. What I actually wanted to say before I got sidetracked is that if more people didn't care about score, and simply wanted their guide to be popular so more players could understand their way of playing, there would be a lot less QQ on the forums, and a lot more activity :P[/quote]

[quote=DuffTime][quote=Xenasis] Also, why is Duff not a Scout? There's a lot of anomalies. [/quote] Don't you mean vet? :P[/quote]

[quote=Wayne3100]^ He might know you don't want to be a vet but not understand why you wouldn't be a Scout then?[/quote]

[quote=Nighthawk]We have had like....20 posts asking why Duff isn't blah/blah/blah? /facepalm Just saiyan.[/quote]

[quote=Wayne3100]lol, yup xD[/quote]

[quote=jhoijhoi]Duff likes making statements that no one actually cares about lol. If he'd just man up and accept the status, Matt would probably listen to his views. One cannot know the inner workings of the system they hate unless they are actually a part of it. As for scout system being unfair, there are currently two featured guides. Because the scouts aren't handing out scout points. So... those who are saying that random guides that are not good are going to be scouted and featured, you're absolutely wrong. Current way it's handled is that a thread goes up about a champion, and each scout may nominate as many guides as they like for that champion. The other scouts then discuss in that thread the viability of the nominations, and what needs to be done to the guide before they give their scout points. The thread maker then collects all this information and PMs the author of the nomination. Once the author has changed their guide, or explained reasoning behind their choices, the guide is then scouted with scout discretion. If you still don't think this jury type vote (a LARGE amount of scout points is needed for a guide to get featured, to give you a rough idea, the two featured guides are over 11+ scout points) isn't enough to filter good guides then WHAT THE FUCK DO YOU WANT. Like seriously.[/quote]