Feedback on my Sona Build

[quote=Viola Orpheus]So, out of the 100+ Normal Games I've played, [[sona]] is the character that I've ended up playing as for at least 80 of them. During my early days with her, I'd look up guides to see which items were useful. And so far, they've been successful. But more recently I've started to experiment on which item build is more effective for her as a Support and with my play style. With that, I'd like your feedback on what I found useful for her. [b]Core Items:[/b] * [[Faerie Charm]] -> [[Philosopher's Stone]] -> [[Shurelya's Reverie]] * [[Boots of Speed]] -> [[Ionian Boots of Lucidity]] / [[Mercury's Treads]] (If CC-heavy enemy team) * [[Heart of Gold]] -> [[Randuin's Omen]] * [[Aegis of the Legion]] * [[Zeke's Herald]] (If more AD-reliant teammates) / [[Will of the Ancients]] (If more AP-reliant teammates) [b]Core Consumable Items:[/b] * [[Sight Ward]] * [[Mana Potion]] * [[Oracle's Elixir]] (Grabbed at mid-late game and/or when you see a [[Twitch]] or someone similar on the enemy team) [b]Situational Items:[/b] * [[Locket of the Iron Solari]] - Can replace [[Randuin's Omen]] if you don't have enough gold and need the extra Health and Armor ASAP. The active can also occasionally save teammates from an [[Ignite]] when combo'd with your W skill, since your W skill won't be healing all that much. * [[Banshee's Veil]] - The passive can help keep you and your teammates alive, should say an enemy [[Amumu]] initiate by jumping onto your teammate and activating his ult. With Banshee's, the ult is negated for you and you can counter with your own ability (Such as [[Crescendo]]) or one of your items (Such as [[Locket of the Iron Solari]]) to prevent the enemy team from nuking you and your teammates down. * [[Soul Shroud]] - Should you have more AP teammates than AD, then this helps them recover mana more quickly and the CDR also helps. * [[Abyssal Scepter]] - Can replace [[Will of the Ancients]] since the Ability Power, Aura and Magic Resist that comes with it can occasionally outweigh the usefulness of the Ability Power and Spell Vamp that comes with WotA. * [[Quicksilver Sash]] - If the enemy team has a lot of CC, then grabbing this can definitely help since Sona without her abilities becomes a free kill. * [[Frozen Heart]] - The Aura gives you that extra second/millisecond to save your [[Ashe]] before she gets killed down by their [[Caitlyn]] when you're caught unprepared. And the bonus Mana and Armor are also welcome. * [[Glacial Shroud]] - Going for this early in the game can help with your sustainability and it builds into a [[Frozen Heart]]. --- [b]Change Log:[/b] [u]June 29th, 2012:[/u] Major changes to her situational and core items. --- I'm still experimenting on the build. If you guys dislike anything about the build, let me know and I'll see if I can defend the build or if it's that bad, then I'll consider revising it all together.[/quote]

[quote=Moonedge]Not bad, not bad at all. It's basic, it's easy, its straightforward.[/quote]

[quote=Viola Orpheus][quote=Moonedge] Not bad, not bad at all. It's basic, it's easy, its straightforward. [/quote] Thank you. :) Now that I reread the entire thing, it actually is rather basic and easy. I'd just hope that I'll be able to correctly provide info if I get questioned. *sweat drop*[/quote]

[quote=PsiGuard][quote=Viola Orpheus] * [[Tear of the Goddess]] -> [[Archangel's Staff]] ** [[Thornmail]] (If being focused often by AD champions) ** [[Zhonya's Hourglass]] (If being focused on most team fights) ** [[Frozen Heart]] (If the enemy team is high on AD/DPS champs) *** [[Mejai's Soulstealer]] (If you need the extra AP and the enemy team is dying more than killing your teammates) *** [[Lich Bane]] (Mostly for the same reason as Mejai's) [/quote] I'm assuming you're going for a 0 CS support build. A lot of these situational picks aren't very realistic. [[Archangel's Staff]] is too expensive for a support and slows down your early game. I wouldn't build it. [[Thornmail]] is not a good AD counter. You'd be better off with Randuin's. [[Zhonya's Hourglass]] is good, but too expensive. Better to get some cheaper support items first, which basically means you'll never get the chance to build it. [[Frozen Heart]] is also expensive and gives 20% CDR, which is way overkill on a support. Randuin's is a more efficient use of your gold. [[Mejai's Soulstealer]] is not a support item. You die way too quickly and you need to be willing to die for your teammates if necessary. This is 1200 gold you could be spending on something more useful. You should not be the one snowballing. [[Lich Bane]] is okay, though you'll rarely have enough AP to make the proc significant. I wouldn't really bother with it as it compliments an AP build and doesn't really help you support at all. Also quite expensive. The rest of the core and the items I didn't mention are all solid picks though. :)[/quote]

[quote=Jpikachu1999]You aren't building a ton of AP, and [[Archangel's Staff]] is kinda expensive for a support. This is a great quote from a general supporting guide that I've seen. I think it sums it up nicely: "There is a tendency to try to build into this on Sona since some people pair the spamminess of her abilities with the on-cast charging of Tear of the Goddess. Unfortunatley, unless you are spamming the everloving shit out of Sona, your team is already doing really well, AND you have other support items already, Archangel’s is just too expensive and takes too long to make it worthwhile. You need to support your teammates, and buying this is a somewhat selfish move in lieu of items that are beneficial to the group. If the game is getting you that much gold and is running that long, you should probably just end the game already." [[Zhonya's Hourglass]] is once again too expensive. You are a support, focus more on your utility than you're damage. [[Lich Bane]] is too expensive and too focused on offense for a support character. You won't have enough AP for it to be that useful anyways. [[Mejai's Soulstealer]] is not a good item on most AP mids, let alone on supports. You should be risking your life to save your carry's if need be. [[Frozen Heart]] and [[Randuin's Omen]] are infinitely better than [[Thornmail]]. It's like 1 in a million situations that [[Thornmail]] is better. Don't list it. Also, at Psi, [[Frozen Heart]] is fine on Sona, she can use the CDR, mana, and armor. If someone else hasn't picked one up, and they have attack speed reliant people, it's a good decision. -------------------- Never replace [[Shurelya's Reverie]] on support. It's too good to not have, and if you don't get it, I'd say you aren't supporting.[/quote]

[quote=Viola Orpheus][quote=PsiGuard] [quote=Viola Orpheus] * [[Tear of the Goddess]] -> [[Archangel's Staff]] ** [[Thornmail]] (If being focused often by AD champions) ** [[Zhonya's Hourglass]] (If being focused on most team fights) ** [[Frozen Heart]] (If the enemy team is high on AD/DPS champs) *** [[Mejai's Soulstealer]] (If you need the extra AP and the enemy team is dying more than killing your teammates) *** [[Lich Bane]] (Mostly for the same reason as Mejai's) [/quote] I'm assuming you're going for a 0 CS support build. A lot of these situational picks aren't very realistic. [[Archangel's Staff]] is too expensive for a support and slows down your early game. I wouldn't build it. [[Thornmail]] is not a good AD counter. You'd be better off with Randuin's. [[Zhonya's Hourglass]] is good, but too expensive. Better to get some cheaper support items first, which basically means you'll never get the chance to build it. [[Frozen Heart]] is also expensive and gives 20% CDR, which is way overkill on a support. Randuin's is a more efficient use of your gold. [[Mejai's Soulstealer]] is not a support item. You die way too quickly and you need to be willing to die for your teammates if necessary. This is 1200 gold you could be spending on something more useful. You should not be the one snowballing. [[Lich Bane]] is okay, though you'll rarely have enough AP to make the proc significant. I wouldn't really bother with it as it compliments an AP build and doesn't really help you support at all. Also quite expensive. The rest of the core and the items I didn't mention are all solid picks though. :) [/quote] Thanks for the feedback. And yes, this was mostly for a 0 CS build, since I am terribad at last hitting with the lag I have. :/ Well the reason I had [[Thornmail]] on there is because there had been a couple of situations where a [[Vayne]], or an [[Ashe]] killed themselves because I had this item. Looking back on it though, I guess they might have just been derping around. :/ [[Frozen Heart]] also has saved me and my teammates at least a few times because the Passive slowed down the enemy autoattacks, and also the CDR for her skills where I instead bought [[Mercury's Treads]] for boots which is why I had listed that as well. Well, the reason I placed [[Lich Bane]] and [[Mejai's Soulstealer]] on there was because they both have helped me out on saving an ally/killing an enemy at least a couple of times. Mostly [[Mejai's Soulstealer]] only though, since I was racking up assists a lot and hardly died on those games. [quote=Jpikachu1999] You aren't building a ton of AP, and [[Archangel's Staff]] is kinda expensive for a support. This is a great quote from a general supporting guide that I've seen. I think it sums it up nicely: "There is a tendency to try to build into this on Sona since some people pair the spamminess of her abilities with the on-cast charging of Tear of the Goddess. Unfortunatley, unless you are spamming the everloving shit out of Sona, your team is already doing really well, AND you have other support items already, Archangel’s is just too expensive and takes too long to make it worthwhile. You need to support your teammates, and buying this is a somewhat selfish move in lieu of items that are beneficial to the group. If the game is getting you that much gold and is running that long, you should probably just end the game already." [[Zhonya's Hourglass]] is once again too expensive. You are a support, focus more on your utility than you're damage. [[Lich Bane]] is too expensive and too focused on offense for a support character. You won't have enough AP for it to be that useful anyways. [[Mejai's Soulstealer]] is not a good item on most AP mids, let alone on supports. You should be risking your life to save your carry's if need be. [[Frozen Heart]] and [[Randuin's Omen]] are infinitely better than [[Thornmail]]. It's like 1 in a million situations that [[Thornmail]] is better. Don't list it. Also, at Psi, [[Frozen Heart]] is fine on Sona, she can use the CDR, mana, and armor. If someone else hasn't picked one up, and they have attack speed reliant people, it's a good decision. -------------------- Never replace [[Shurelya's Reverie]] on support. It's too good to not have, and if you don't get it, I'd say you aren't supporting. [/quote] Thanks for your feedback as well. On most cases when me and my friends would play seriously... Yes, I do end up spamming the ever loving **** out of her. In some of the situations where I didn't have at least [[Tear of the Goddess]], I found myself low on mana when team fights or ganks were often occurring where I'd save my teammates from dying. However, would you consider that I grab [[Tear of the Goddess]] sometime early/mid game, and then ditch it at late game for one of the other support items instead of building the [[Archangel's Staff]] all the way as a viable option? Since at that time I'd need all the Mana in the world available without [[Tear of the Goddess]]. [[Zhonya's Hourglass]] has helped me save my teammates on a few occasions on long games when I'd get focused down really really hard early when a team fight erupts so that I can use her [[Crescendo]] since it helps save a teammate and/or secure a kill. Alright, I'll remove [[Thornmail]] since you guys have convinced me that [[Randuin's Omen]] and [[Frozen Heart]] are better items. ~~~ Thanks for the feedback guys. I'll be sure to put the stuff you two mentioned into consideration. :)[/quote]

[quote=Jpikachu1999][quote=Viola Orpheus] Thanks for the feedback. And yes, this was mostly for a 0 CS build, since I am terribad at last hitting with the lag I have. :/ Well the reason I had [[Thornmail]] on there is because there had been a couple of situations where a [[Vayne]], or an [[Ashe]] killed themselves because I had this item. Looking back on it though, I guess they might have just been derping around. :/ [[Frozen Heart]] also has saved me and my teammates at least a few times because the Passive slowed down the enemy autoattacks, and also the CDR for her skills where I instead bought [[Mercury's Treads]] for boots which is why I had listed that as well. Well, the reason I placed [[Lich Bane]] and [[Mejai's Soulstealer]] on there was because they both have helped me out on saving an ally/killing an enemy at least a couple of times. Mostly [[Mejai's Soulstealer]] only though, since I was racking up assists a lot and hardly died on those games. [/quote] The reason that [[Thornmail]] is bad, is that it's so selfish, and gives less defense than the other items. The passive is easily nullified with lifesteal, so there's no point. The point on a tanky item for tanks or supports, is that it lets you [b]and[/b] teammates tank longer. Either that, or it gives more beneficial stats. If you are replacing [[Shurelya's Reverie]] with either of those, you can easily help your teammates escape, or give them the kill. It's better for them to get the kill than you, not to mention it does help you as well. Also, the point of a support is to support your teammates, in any way possible. If that means suiciding to save your teammates, that's absolutely the best idea to do. [quote=Viola Orpheus] Thanks for your feedback as well. On most cases when me and my friends would play seriously... Yes, I do end up spamming the ever loving **** out of her. In some of the situations where I didn't have at least [[Tear of the Goddess]], I found myself low on mana when team fights or ganks were often occurring where I'd save my teammates from dying. However, would you consider that I grab [[Tear of the Goddess]] sometime early/mid game, and then ditch it at late game for one of the other support items instead of building the [[Archangel's Staff]] all the way as a viable option? Since at that time I'd need all the Mana in the world available without [[Tear of the Goddess]]. [/quote] If you are playing Sona, please don't spam. Her power comes from spamming at the correct times, not 24/7. Sona is pretty much a sustain support, not really kill lane or poke. Yes, she can do either of those, but she is more conservative and passive in playstyle. Need mana? I've run for 10 minutes on just [[Faerie charm]], but if not, there are other options. First, you should be getting [[Meditation]] in the Utility tree, running 0/9/21, and picking up mana regen along the way anyways. [[Philosopher's Stone]] should be able to hold you in lane for a long time, and if you still need more, get Mana regen/lvl glyphs and an early [[Shurelya's Reverie]]. If it doesn't work, I'll think of something else, but that should cover it. EDIT: You can also get an early [[Glacial Shroud]] or [[Banshee's Veil]] if need be. [quote=Viola Orpheus] [[Zhonya's Hourglass]] has helped me save my teammates on a few occasions on long games when I'd get focused down really really hard early when a team fight erupts so that I can use her [[Crescendo]] since it helps save a teammate and/or secure a kill. [/quote] It's just expensive, that's all. They are focusing you? Good. Yes, you are fairly squishy, but it's better than you carries/damage dealers. Plus, unless you have horrific lag, getting a good [[Crescendo]] off when they are focusing you shouldn't me that hard. [quote=Viola Orpheus] Alright, I'll remove [[Thornmail]] since you guys have convinced me that [[Randuin's Omen]] and [[Frozen Heart]] are better items. ~~~ Thanks for the feedback guys. I'll be sure to put the stuff you two mentioned into consideration. :) [/quote] You're welcome, tell me how it works out :D EDIT: You should probably add [[Banshee's Veil]] and [[Quicksilver Sash]] to the situationals.[/quote]

[quote=Viola Orpheus][quote=Jpikachu1999]If you are playing Sona, please don't spam. Her power comes from spamming at the correct times, not 24/7. Sona is pretty much a sustain support, not really kill lane or poke. Yes, she can do either of those, but she is more conservative and passive in playstyle. Need mana? I've run for 10 minutes on just [[Faerie charm]], but if not, there are other options. First, you should be getting [[Meditation]] in the Utility tree, running 0/9/21, and picking up mana regen along the way anyways. [[Philosopher's Stone]] should be able to hold you in lane for a long time, and if you still need more, get Mana regen/lvl glyphs and an early [[Shurelya's Reverie]]. If it doesn't work, I'll think of something else, but that should cover it. EDIT: You can also get an early [[Glacial Shroud]] or [[Banshee's Veil]] if need be.[/quote] I guess I should have elaborated on that part. What I meant by that is because I had to keep using her W and E skills quite often to either heal the most damage teammate close to me after a gank/team fight, and/or to make sure that the teammate gets out faster when he/she is ganked. Since I keep dying, I fall behind in levels and money so I quickly run out of mana in those cases. [quote=Jpikachu1999] You're welcome, tell me how it works out :D EDIT: You should probably add [[Banshee's Veil]] and [[Quicksilver Sash]] to the situationals. [/quote] I believe I have [[Banshee's Veil]] on there already. I haven't had any experience with [[Quicksilver Sash]] yet though, but I'll give that a run once I get the chance. Thanks again for the feedback. :)[/quote]

[quote=A Chubby Baby]not bad. very standard sona build.[/quote]

[quote=Jpikachu1999][quote=Viola Orpheus] I guess I should have elaborated on that part. What I meant by that is because I had to keep using her W and E skills quite often to either heal the most damage teammate close to me after a gank/team fight, and/or to make sure that the teammate gets out faster when he/she is ganked. Since I keep dying, I fall behind in levels and money so I quickly run out of mana in those cases. [/quote] Support requires quite a bit of map awareness, which believe me, I still don't have a whole ton of :3 If you are low on mana, try telling your teammate to play more passively so that you can give your mana regen time to restore your mana. Or you could keep spamming a bunch, and just recall at a safe situation. [quote=Viola Orpheus] I believe I have [[Banshee's Veil]] on there already. I haven't had any experience with [[Quicksilver Sash]] yet though, but I'll give that a run once I get the chance. Thanks again for the feedback. :) [/quote] I'm blind, you totally do have [[Banshee's Veil]]. The [[Quicksilver Sash]] is very situational, but if you have good reaction time, it can be good against CC heavy teams. Most importantly, you should get it when they have a lot of CC, and you are getting focused by the CC. Generally, here's the rule of thumb: 4 or more Hard CC = Maybe, depends on how long their duration and which ones, but if it's something like Shen's [[shadow Dash]] that can be devastating. 4 or more Hard CC + 3 or more Soft CC = Probably, as you are likely to get hit by at least 2 and getting hit by them would be crippling. Suppressions and/or long duration CC = Definitely. Suppressions can only removed by [[Quicksilver Sash]], and are usually extremely devastating as you can literally do [b]nothing[/b]. Long duration CC, like Fiddle's [[Terrify]], Rammus's [[Piercing taunt]], or Galio's [[Idol of Durand]] are pretty powerful and generally will kill you without a [[Quicksilver Sash]].[/quote]