AD vs AP - A discussion about damage

[quote=BusDriver210]Ever since the removal of dodge I have been feeling that AD sources of damage output have been a little too strong. I don't play AP much, but I just don't see anything matching a lategame AD carry in damage. I am under the impression that they are meant to be the top damage source, but it just seems a little outrageous some matches. [[Infinity Edge]] [[Phantom Dancer]] [[Last whisper]] vs. [[Rabadon's Deathcap ]] [[Rylai's Crystal Scepter]] [[Void Staff]] I would really like to get your guys opinions on the two difference damage sources and which one you think is more powerful. With about 130 MR and around 3k health any bruiser can soak some AP damage, but even with the highest armor points [[last whisper]] just makes AD carries kill anything. Another way to look at the argument is AOE vs single target. Carries like [[Karthus]] are kinda in a weird spot compared to most burst APs. His ability to enter a fight and deal massive damage to everyone outclasses most AP roles. Thoughts?[/quote]

[quote=Phil15]Ap is something used to burst quickly and dont need to stay in the middle of the fight to do their dps whereas AD carries must do the maximum number of auto-attacks possible to do their damage. Honestly I do not believe Ad carries are overpowered. Of course they do more damage in teamfights but there is a greater risk to die for them as their build do not provide them any surviability. And a bruiser with 3k health just need to land one cc to the carry and hes pretty much dead. Moreover the only carries that will kill those bruisers quickly are hyper carries such as [[vayne]] [[kog]] and [[tristana]]. In short, I do believe Ap and Ad are balanced You might like to post this thread there also http://www.mobafire.com/league-of-legends/forum/theorycrafting[/quote]

[quote=H4xDefender]AD is pretty close to AP, they serve different functions. AD outclassed by AP early but outclasses them late for the most part. Bruisers have it worse then both overall though.[/quote]

[quote=wRAthoFVuLK]As said earlier, different functions; generally the AD will be stronger than the AP late game, but, on the same levels of fed, usually the AP is a bit stronger damage-wise early game. Generally it is the AP's job to burst key targets down, while the AD kills everyone and everything else. Kind of. In a nutshell. It's a bit more complicated than that but ya[/quote]

[quote=PsiGuard][quote=BusDriver210] I don't play AP much, but I just don't see anything matching a lategame AD carry in damage. [/quote] This has always been true. That's how it's supposed to be. Also the AD is generally more vulnerable while dealing their damage as it's DPS, not burst. They have to stand and autoattack for several seconds while a lot of APs can unload their damage in an instant. [quote=BusDriver210] [[Infinity Edge]] [[Phantom Dancer]] [[Last whisper]] vs. [[Rabadon's Deathcap ]] [[Rylai's Crystal Scepter]] [[Void Staff]] [/quote] This isn't a fair comparison. For one, your AD build is completely focused on DPS while your AP build has rylai's, part of which is defensive and part is utility. Even accepting this matchup, chances are the AD carry would die before they got more than 2 attacks off anyway. Most APs should be able to burst a glass target when they have deathcap.[/quote]

[quote=Anastasios]Let's say you have [[tristana]] vs [[Ahri]]. If Ahri gets her [[charm]], she can kill tristana without taking any damage, so trist's dps is 0. Or let's say [[vayne]] vs [[malzahar]]. A full Malza combo can 100-0 pretty much anyone, so vayne deals zero damage alltogether. The point of APs is to instaburst (or generally disable and kill) the ADs.[/quote]

[quote=Crows foot]Thing is you can't compare ad vs ap since they don't match up against each other in simple 1v1s. They both need the cc to take the other one down.[/quote]

[quote=Luther3000][quote=BusDriver210] I don't play AP much, but I just don't see anything matching a lategame AD carry in damage. [/quote] They're not supposed to.[/quote]

[quote=Mooninites]AD based champions generally scale off items, while AP based champions scale more off levels. Thats why the meta is AP mid and AD bot. That's not to say that certain champions don't scale well with AP, strangely enough I believe that the best late-game scaling champion is [[Vladimir]]. However with this said, I think AD is pretty far ahead of AP with an [[Infinity Edge]] and [[Zeal]] or better. Once an AD carry gets those two items, they will pretty much always outclass the AP champion. I think the problem is more that there's like 1 maybe 2 build paths for AD champions and multiple for AP. [[Infinity Edge]] and [[Phantom Dancer]] are core on pretty much every AD. [[Last Whisper]] or [[The Black Cleaver]] rounded out with [[The Bloodthirster]] and some defensive item. With an AP based champion there are so many more build paths, you don't have to rush [[Rabadon's Deathcap]] first to be effective, you can go [[Abyssal Scepter]], [[Will of the Ancients]], etc. This is probably part of the reason why you see AD outscaling AP, they need less core items to deal damage than AP does. For example sake, An AD carry with [[Infinity Edge]] and [[Phantom Dancer]] will deal leagues more damage than any AP champion with [[Rabadon's Deathcap]] and [[Void Staff]] even though they're roughly the same cost in gold.[/quote]

[quote=cooper56]Ad is over time Ap is instant (95% of time)[/quote]