Answering questions considering ADC/Support....

[quote=TROLLing1999]What do you think about the new Lucian nerfs?[/quote]

[quote=Joxuu][quote=I want to be a Blitzball]Would you ever build [[Bloodthirster]] into [[Statikk Shiv]] on [[Vayne]] with a [[Tumble]]max? Also, any thoughts on [[Manamune]] into [[Trinity Force]] on [[Ezreal]]?[/quote] I'd always build botrk over BT. If I were to go hfor heavy AD item, I would go for IE + Shiv and max tumble first. [[manamune]] into [[trinity force]] is really good build path for [[ezreal]] if you can survive the early game without falling too behind cus of the 700 gold waste on [[tear of the goddess]] [quote=TROLLing1999]What do you think about the new Lucian nerfs?[/quote] I don't think they matter too much. 6 -> 3 second passive duration is pretty much nothing as you usually pop the passive immediatly. The AD ratio nerf doesn't matter too much as you won't have much AD anyways. [[lucian]] still stays as the best ADC.[/quote]

[quote=Jovy][quote=Joxuu] Tier [[Thresh]] Tier 1 [[janna]] [[nami]] Tier 2 [[braum]] [[morgana]] [[alistar]] [[sona]] [[karma]] [[leona]] [[lulu]] [[soraka]] [[zyra]] [[vel'koz]] Tier 3 [[blitzcrank]] [[annie]] [[zilean]] [[taric]] [[leblanc]] Tier 4 [[fiddlesticks]] [[lux]] [[brand]][/quote] Think you should put the tier lists in the OP! Questions: [list][*] Why isn't Leona/Braum/Soraka (I heard she got nerfed, is that it?) tier 1? What would take Leona/Braum to be tier 1? I know they can both have a difficult time with poke but Braum's E is like 40 mana and he's got his W and is overall pretty tanky, and I don't tend to have too many issues with poke when playing him, so I'm always puzzled when people write him off as having terrible lane phase. Especially since in my opinion even if we were to agree on his lane being bad, his late game is pretty amazing. [*] Why is Zyra tier 2? [*] Do you really think the shield nerf hit Morg that hard?[/quote]

[quote=Savlonic][quote=Joxuu] [[manamune]] into [[trinity force]] is really good build path for [[ezreal]] if you can survive the early game without falling too behind cus of the 700 gold waste on [[tear of the goddess]][/quote] What do you think of Blue [[ezreal]]? Lot of people argue that it's better than standard, and personally I prefer it a great deal over standard. What are it's major fall offs in your opinion aside from price for core?[/quote]

[quote=Joxuu][quote=Savlonic] What do you think of Blue [[ezreal]]? Lot of people argue that it's better than standard, and personally I prefer it a great deal over standard. What are it's major fall offs in your opinion aside from price for core?[/quote] I think blue build takes too long to build up. The build usually gives you amazing kiting potential and you get pretty decent poke but I think the build lacks in damage. I prefer the "original" build because it's more efficient early on and you can do more during your laning phase. Blue build is much funnier though.[/quote]

[quote=Joxuu]Will post the tier explanation later today.[/quote]

[quote=Jovy]I eagerly await.[/quote]

[quote=Joxuu][quote=MissMaw][quote=Joxuu] Tier [[Thresh]] Tier 1 [[janna]] [[nami]] Tier 2 [[braum]] [[morgana]] [[alistar]] [[sona]] [[karma]] [[leona]] [[lulu]] [[soraka]] [[zyra]] [[vel'koz]] Tier 3 [[blitzcrank]] [[annie]] [[zilean]] [[taric]] [[leblanc]] Tier 4 [[fiddlesticks]] [[lux]] [[brand]][/quote] Think you should put the tier lists in the OP! Questions: [list][*] Why isn't Leona/Braum/Soraka (I heard she got nerfed, is that it?) tier 1? What would take Leona/Braum to be tier 1? I know they can both have a difficult time with poke but Braum's E is like 40 mana and he's got his W and is overall pretty tanky, and I don't tend to have too many issues with poke when playing him, so I'm always puzzled when people write him off as having terrible lane phase. Especially since in my opinion even if we were to agree on his lane being bad, his late game is pretty amazing. [*] Why is Zyra tier 2? [*] Do you really think the shield nerf hit Morg that hard?[/quote] The thing for current bot lane compositions is mobility. All top tier ADC and support provide or have some kind of mobility. That's pretty much the harsh line between top tier and second tier. The current bot lane meta is combination of high mobility and high amounts of CC. Tier 1 supports have CC, mobility and some kind of protective abilities. [[leona]] has high amounts of CC and is tanky but only fits for aggressive lanes. [[leona]] needs an ADC to be able to follow the initiations. She is not fit for poke/passive lane which can be troubling if you are behind. She works well with aggressive lanes where you are able to dominate the lane and not even give a chance for 2v2 win due high amount of CC but if the ADC is not able to follow up, you lack the mobility to escape the situation and you will end up getting abandoned or your ADC just get outdamaged even if ya landed all the CC. [[soraka]] is quite the opposite. You want to have a support with proper initiation and pressure. I'm pretty sure [[soraka]] offers one of the safest laning phases while keeping of some kind of poke but lacks pressure and proper initiation for aggressive ADC so it's a situational pick. She is also very vulnerable to getting CC'd. She can keep her ADC buffed and healthy but lacks self-defense. [[braum]] is a support I really like. I'd like to see [[braum]] see play due immense amount of protection for ADC, having mobility and being ridicilously tanky. The thing is the unreliable laning phase due low poke and unreliable initiation with Q. [[braum]] would be really good if the Q wouldn't hit minions but since it does, [[braum]] lacks proper initiation and relies on ADC keeping minion aggro against the enemy. It's also not always all about landing the Q but also about having ADC to be able to use Q passive fast enough,. Currently not so many ADC are not able to do so but many high tier ADC can so he is still a good pick. I would put him in tier 1 if Q was more reliable as initiation tool. Level 6 is a bit too late considering bot lane swings already in a way or another before that point. I'd rate him high tier 2. [[zyra]] is borderline tier 2, close to 3. I rate her as tier 2 due high amount of poke and burst. She can also keep safe distance from most of the support's poke or CC with her plants or E. She is really close to tier 3 however. I think I overestimated her over the [[vel'koz]] even. I would probably switch the positions. I don't think [[morgana]] was hit by the E nerf too hard but the different playstyle of bot lane. The support meta slowly shifted away from 24/7 [[thresh]] pick due the increased amount of [[morgana]] picks. The amount of high tier ADC mobility also denied a lot of her Q + ultimate plays. I don't think she got nerfed out of the tier 1 but the bot lane changes. High mobility and supports that offer sustain or high poke sort of made her a situational pick. [[morgana]] is still very good and completly denies many supports and so remains in high tier 2.[/quote]

[quote=Savlonic][quote=Joxuu]I think blue build takes too long to build up. The build usually gives you amazing kiting potential and you get pretty decent poke but I think the build lacks in damage. I prefer the "original" build because it's more efficient early on and you can do more during your laning phase. Blue build is much funnier though.[/quote] Just to clarify on the 'lack of damage' note, what does your standard blue path look like? Because I haven't had horrible damage (Least for [[ezreal]]), with it if the game goes to that 30-40 minute point. Usually something like [[Muramana]] -> [[Iceborn Gauntlet]] -> [[Ionian Boots of Lucidity]] -> [[Blade of the Ruined King]] -> [[Last Whisper]] -> Varies for my choice, I stray from the traditional blue/kinda blue items though and either go [[Statikk Shiv]] or [[Infinity Edge]].[/quote]

[quote=XeresAce]Please note, zyra does not have a high amount of poke and decent burst, she has retarded amount of poke and stupid burst 8) [quote = Joxuu] The thing for current bot lane compositions is mobility. All top tier ADC and support provide or have some kind of mobility. That's pretty much the harsh line between top tier and second tier. The current bot lane meta is combination of high mobility and high amounts of CC. [b]Tier 1 supports have CC, mobility and some kind of protective abilities.[/b] [/quote] Karma, Sona, Lulu and zillean fit that description to the T. Can't say I'm satisfied with your answer here :P EDIT: Just realized that Janna and Nami have hard CC outside of their ultimates which is probably why they're a notch above the others, woops[/quote]