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Nice job on the OP, looks nice. :)
Tbh these difficulty levels don't look any better than they used to be. I think Riot pulled these from win rates in low elo / low level play or something like that. Still weird that someone like Lee Sin is considered half as difficult as Singed. o.O
Tbh these difficulty levels don't look any better than they used to be. I think Riot pulled these from win rates in low elo / low level play or something like that. Still weird that someone like Lee Sin is considered half as difficult as Singed. o.O
Thanks to Nyoike for the sig!
iirc, the difficulty is based on how similar they are to other champions, and also win rates of new players. And maybe a couple other things.
Phreak's post on the matter:
So, something I know about:
There's an easily-built statistical model that says "Here's how often a first-time player wins with X champion. Here's how often a 2x, 3x, 4x player wins on this champion. Here's how often a player playing his 30th game on that champion wins." This roughly implies how difficult a champion is to learn. (Made-up numbers) On average first-time Rumble wins 30% of their games. A 30+time Rumble player wins more than half. Rumble is hard to learn. He wins roughly twice as often once a player "learns" the champion. (/made-up numbers).
It's not 1 to 1 with the scaling, but most Marksmen are actually pretty easy: Once you learn one, you basically learn them all. You're roughly as good as a first-time Varus as you are as a 30-time Varus (compared to other champions).
Ryze has basically no comparison champion. You have to learn Ryze specifically.
Now, this also isn't perfectly analogous to a new player's experience: If it's their first game ever, of course they have no prior Marksman experience to inform their Varus play.
Just tossing out some thoughts, though. Take them as you wish.
I suppose there's also the perception of "I think I'm doing well" versus "I'm winning."
Did you know Singed also has an incredibly disparate 1-to-30 curve? You wouldn't really think so: He has no skill shots and pretty little to plan for. But it turns out there's a LOT to learn about what you can get away with, which targets to attack, and how to get out of lane.
The separation is 2 different posts.
Phreak's post on the matter:
Quoted:
So, something I know about:
There's an easily-built statistical model that says "Here's how often a first-time player wins with X champion. Here's how often a 2x, 3x, 4x player wins on this champion. Here's how often a player playing his 30th game on that champion wins." This roughly implies how difficult a champion is to learn. (Made-up numbers) On average first-time Rumble wins 30% of their games. A 30+time Rumble player wins more than half. Rumble is hard to learn. He wins roughly twice as often once a player "learns" the champion. (/made-up numbers).
It's not 1 to 1 with the scaling, but most Marksmen are actually pretty easy: Once you learn one, you basically learn them all. You're roughly as good as a first-time Varus as you are as a 30-time Varus (compared to other champions).
Ryze has basically no comparison champion. You have to learn Ryze specifically.
Now, this also isn't perfectly analogous to a new player's experience: If it's their first game ever, of course they have no prior Marksman experience to inform their Varus play.
Just tossing out some thoughts, though. Take them as you wish.
I suppose there's also the perception of "I think I'm doing well" versus "I'm winning."
Did you know Singed also has an incredibly disparate 1-to-30 curve? You wouldn't really think so: He has no skill shots and pretty little to plan for. But it turns out there's a LOT to learn about what you can get away with, which targets to attack, and how to get out of lane.
The separation is 2 different posts.
i think they actually posted about this explaining some of it, using Varus as an example, you press Q and it slows your MS and changes his model making it obvious you have to do something else with the ability, whereas singed you press Q and nothing happens which can be difficult to a newer player
"So, something I know about:
There's an easily-built statistical model that says "Here's how often a first-time player wins with X champion. Here's how often a 2x, 3x, 4x player wins on this champion. Here's how often a player playing his 30th game on that champion wins." This roughly implies how difficult a champion is to learn. (Made-up numbers) On average first-time Rumble wins 30% of their games. A 30+time Rumble player wins more than half. Rumble is hard to learn. He wins roughly twice as often once a player "learns" the champion. (/made-up numbers).
It's not 1 to 1 with the scaling, but most Marksmen are actually pretty easy: Once you learn one, you basically learn them all. You're roughly as good as a first-time Varus as you are as a 30-time Varus (compared to other champions).
Ryze has basically no comparison champion. You have to learn Ryze specifically.
Now, this also isn't perfectly analogous to a new player's experience: If it's their first game ever, of course they have no prior Marksman experience to inform their Varus play.Just tossing out some thoughts, though. Take them as you wish."
this is something Phreak said about how they choose difficulty, basically Singed would be so high since he has no comparison champion like Ryze does, whereas Varus/MF have all kinda of comparison champions
Source: http://www.surrenderat20.net/2014/10/red-post-collection-mysterious-changes.html
Edit: i hate you lugi
"So, something I know about:
There's an easily-built statistical model that says "Here's how often a first-time player wins with X champion. Here's how often a 2x, 3x, 4x player wins on this champion. Here's how often a player playing his 30th game on that champion wins." This roughly implies how difficult a champion is to learn. (Made-up numbers) On average first-time Rumble wins 30% of their games. A 30+time Rumble player wins more than half. Rumble is hard to learn. He wins roughly twice as often once a player "learns" the champion. (/made-up numbers).
It's not 1 to 1 with the scaling, but most Marksmen are actually pretty easy: Once you learn one, you basically learn them all. You're roughly as good as a first-time Varus as you are as a 30-time Varus (compared to other champions).
Ryze has basically no comparison champion. You have to learn Ryze specifically.
Now, this also isn't perfectly analogous to a new player's experience: If it's their first game ever, of course they have no prior Marksman experience to inform their Varus play.Just tossing out some thoughts, though. Take them as you wish."
this is something Phreak said about how they choose difficulty, basically Singed would be so high since he has no comparison champion like Ryze does, whereas Varus/MF have all kinda of comparison champions
Source: http://www.surrenderat20.net/2014/10/red-post-collection-mysterious-changes.html
Edit: i hate you lugi
Thanks to TheNamelessBard for the signature
Tbh with the Lee Sin thing I do agree that its weird he is classed as a level 6 especially considering that a champion like Nidalee is a level 8 and in a sense both do have a similarity in the sense that both have secondary abilities to use on top of the main ones.
What makes Lee Sin more difficult is that you only have a few seconds to use these abilities correctly in order to get the best out of him whilst with Nidalee its turn in cougar and use the secondary abilities.
Some would say that would make Nidalee alot easier to play as
What makes Lee Sin more difficult is that you only have a few seconds to use these abilities correctly in order to get the best out of him whilst with Nidalee its turn in cougar and use the secondary abilities.
Some would say that would make Nidalee alot easier to play as
"The Wolf eyes the Prey, The Cow eats the hay, One of them is a killer, The other his buffet"
To be honest, most people will end up playing the champions they want to play regardless of the difficulty ratings. I'm not sure how many people choose champions based on difficulty amongst other things, rather than 'this champion is fun to play/strong to play'.
Also no particularly sure about some of those ratings, but if all they're based on is statistical information from new players, then I'm probably just biased now that I've played this game for so long.
Also no particularly sure about some of those ratings, but if all they're based on is statistical information from new players, then I'm probably just biased now that I've played this game for so long.
The ratings actually do make sense to me.
For example, Singed is rated harder than Zed or Lee Sin because, there's no skillset from any other champ that really translates into Singed, you basically have to learn him from the ground up, whereas Zed shares a very similar playstyle to other assassins/melee carries and Lee Sin is comparable to a more mobile J4 or Xin. He has a lot of speed boosts, but not the insane levels of mobility Zed and Lee do which IMO, make them very easy because of forgiving they are. Singed also has a much more limited resource to manage, and his awful early game can be overburdening for new players.
For MF < Ez or Lucian, even though Ez and Lucian are more forgiving, all MF has to do really is press Q for damage, W while she autos, E to run away or chase, and R if she's too far away. To make use of Ezreal and Lucian's kits, you have to weave in autos and kite with your spells, which could be hard for new players to do. So, MF is harder to do well as, but easier to play, which differs from singed who has a very high skill floor and skill cap.
Also, some hidden Riot stats helped them make the list too.
For example, Singed is rated harder than Zed or Lee Sin because, there's no skillset from any other champ that really translates into Singed, you basically have to learn him from the ground up, whereas Zed shares a very similar playstyle to other assassins/melee carries and Lee Sin is comparable to a more mobile J4 or Xin. He has a lot of speed boosts, but not the insane levels of mobility Zed and Lee do which IMO, make them very easy because of forgiving they are. Singed also has a much more limited resource to manage, and his awful early game can be overburdening for new players.
For MF < Ez or Lucian, even though Ez and Lucian are more forgiving, all MF has to do really is press Q for damage, W while she autos, E to run away or chase, and R if she's too far away. To make use of Ezreal and Lucian's kits, you have to weave in autos and kite with your spells, which could be hard for new players to do. So, MF is harder to do well as, but easier to play, which differs from singed who has a very high skill floor and skill cap.
Also, some hidden Riot stats helped them make the list too.
When I first saw your list I thought that you had put it together on your own, and I was getting ready to flame, but then I kept reading and saw that this is the in game list, and it's the info Riot is giving to players from the in game champion stats.
So good job on putting it all together in a nice list.
but really putting signed as a higher level then Lee Riot what are you smoking? or are they taking shrooms, teemo shrooms?
So good job on putting it all together in a nice list.
but really putting signed as a higher level then Lee Riot what are you smoking? or are they taking shrooms, teemo shrooms?
Sig by jhoijhoi
There is really only one drastic change I can understand here, and thats Evelynn. The plan for jungle next season is to ramp up the difficulty and damage of jungle monsters, and Eve is one of if not the squishiest jungler when the game starts. Making her a lvl 10 champ actually makes sense, because she is going to have alot of trouble in the very early jungle, and will probably be chugging health potions like no other. It might even get to the point to where she can not start the jungle without some sort of leash.
The more I look at this list, the more I feel it fits champion mastery more so then just learning the champion. Yes, Singed has a very simple kit, but there are quite alot of secrets you can do with him, such as getting in between the enemy inner and outer towers, keeping the enemy's minions from ever reaching your own, and forcing your opponent to fight your entire minion line without their own.
The same actually goes for Lee. Learning him is quite difficult, learning the different combos, learning the insec, the ward jump, all these special moves that are so extremely crucial to his gameplay. But once you learn these, mastering him is actually quite easy. Yes, you can always get better with your reactions, and whatnot, but once you have learned Lee, you've basically mastered him.
Evelynn. The plan for jungle next season is to ramp up the difficulty and damage of jungle monsters, and Eve is one of if not the squishiest jungler when the game starts. Making her a lvl 10 champ actually makes sense, because she is going to have alot of trouble in the very early jungle, and will probably be chugging health potions like no other. It might even get to the point to where she can not start the jungle without some sort of leash.The more I look at this list, the more I feel it fits champion mastery more so then just learning the champion. Yes, Singed has a very simple kit, but there are quite alot of secrets you can do with him, such as getting in between the enemy inner and outer towers, keeping the enemy's minions from ever reaching your own, and forcing your opponent to fight your entire minion line without their own.
The same actually goes for Lee. Learning him is quite difficult, learning the different combos, learning the insec, the ward jump, all these special moves that are so extremely crucial to his gameplay. But once you learn these, mastering him is actually quite easy. Yes, you can always get better with your reactions, and whatnot, but once you have learned Lee, you've basically mastered him.
The_Nameless_Bard made this sig!
Man, Riots nerve to compare ryze's difficulty to orianna's mkes me aick to my stomach. Brb throwing up
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Thanks a lot for the sig, jhoi! :)
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Thanks a lot for the sig, jhoi! :)
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