So I asked people why their god doesn't help...

[quote=PsiGuard][quote=Searz] I hope you're not referring to me, I never condemn people for belief alone. [/quote] I believe in hell. You conclude that I'm a terrible person. Seems like judgment based on belief alone to me.[/quote]

[quote=Toshabi]I believe Jhoijhoi's main flaw is the undeniable fact that she's prodigiously prejudice. [quote=MrCuddowls] [quote=Toshabi] [quote=MrCuddowls] [*] Suprised people arnt insulting each other yet [/quote] Then, immediately double posts with a potshot picture. Priceless. [/quote] Yes the picture is some what of an insult But it certainly is true Example: library of Alexandria [/quote] The fact of the matter is, closed mindedness and ignorance of both sides is what's plaguing the advancement of human progress. Your example of the Library of Alexandria's destruction wasn't destroyed by the hands of religion, but was in fact destroyed by many groups of people over different time periods. Blaming it all on religion is like saying every human was died was murdered.[/quote]

[quote=The_Nameless_Bard][quote=Searz] [quote=The_Nameless_Bard] the most ironic thing about non-religious people is that they are often as quick to condemn others for their beliefs as religious ones are. We're all very similar in that.[/quote] I hope you're not referring to me, I never condemn people for belief alone. [/quote] I was not referring to you specifically...was just making a general statement[/quote]

[quote=PsiGuard]As for this whole discussion, particularly Jai's argument, I'm seeing a lot of assumptions about what "hell" is. For those (Christians at least) that do believe that hell exists, the only thing that everyone seems to be sure about is that it is a place or a state where one is separated from God completely. So, I can apply Tosh's earlier argument: [quote=Toshabi]Is not heaven a place for those that accepted the Lord as their Savior? Why would someone who doesn't even acknowledge God even want to be with God in the end? It's your choice to make in that regard. No mortal is worthy of going into heaven and we're all sitting in the same boat. I don't think a level headed Christian would think any higher of themself over you. All they can really do is pass along the offer.[/quote] to hell as well. If you reject God, why would you want to spend eternity with him. If he exists, whether you believe that right now or not, and you reject even the concept of his character, you choose hell -- separation from God. Not all Christians will agree with me on this, but I don't think hell is a place of fire or torture in the senses that we know on Earth. I think these descriptions are metaphors for the kind of suffering that separation from God entails. Likewise, heavenly descriptions are metaphors for prosperity (streets of gold, etc.) and fulfillment. More to the point, why do you and other "non-believers" care whether I believe in hell or not? Obviously you don't even think it exists, so if I'm wrong about what happens after death, it won't make any difference to you. The only argument I can think of is that it affects the way a Christian treats a non-Christian, but I don't see any conclusive evidence that that is always the case. I think Tosh kind of covered the Christian attitude towards non-believers already so I won't bother reiterating.[/quote]

[quote=Toshabi][quote=PsiGuard]Not all Christians will agree with me on this, but I don't think hell is a place of fire or torture in the senses that we know on Earth. I think these descriptions are metaphors for the kind of suffering that separation from God entails. Likewise, heavenly descriptions are metaphors for prosperity (streets of gold, etc.) and fulfillment.[/quote] Those are my exact thoughts on the subject of hell.[/quote]

[quote=Searz][quote=PsiGuard] [quote=Searz] I hope you're not referring to me, I never condemn people for belief alone.[/quote] I believe in hell. You conclude that I'm a terrible person. Seems like judgment based on belief alone to me.[/quote] So let me get this straight. >Hell is a bad place. >People who don't believe in god go there. >Believing in god saves you from it. Correct?[/quote]

[quote=jhoijhoi]Sorry, here's what Psi said. Yes he believes in hell, and that I will go to it, and any other non-believers. I didn't meant to take anything out of context, so here it is word by word. I certainly didn't mean to say that Psi is a mean guy or anything. Just that beliefs can lead people to being okay with their friends being "condemned" to hell. I don't believe in hell, and I don't believe in heaven. I believe this world is the only world and that we should make the most of it. I don't know every Christian, and I don't know every religion. I am not against religion in it's entirety, because I know there is some good aspects; the friendship/support group that is like a family amongst religions is one of the key reasons why my extended family members stay Christian. If there's a crisis, they will all band together to help each other. So, here's what Psi said: Jhoijhoilion Ashleigh Do you believe I will go to hell for not believing in your God? PsiGuard Not for me to judge. I've known some people who don't identify as Christian but seem to live much more moral lives than a lot of people who do. I don't know how far God's grace extends. But if you want me to guess, I'd say probably. The official response you'd get is "yes," but that's an oversimplification. After all, most Christians accept that anyone and everyone deserves damnation.[/quote]

[quote=The_Nameless_Bard]I highly doubt "god" is a person who worries himself with the way we live out our daily lives. Far as I can tell, he's also not very merciful...so this assumption that believing in him and only committing the sins you don't want to admit are sins makes you "safe" is pretty stupid. Or are you guys gonna stop shaving your faces/eating shellfish/wearing mixed fiber fabrics and start trying to force rape victims marry their rapists? 'cause I'm 90% sure you'll get in trouble with the authorities for that last one.[/quote]

[quote=Pheyniex]nice, i'm in hell already. wait, that sounds oddly familiar....[/quote]

[quote=Toshabi][quote=Searz]So let me get this straight. >Hell is a bad place. >People who don't believe in god go there. >Believing in god saves you from it. Correct? [/quote] I believe this is nothing more than a case of selective hearing (or, reading, if you must be literal) or perhaps a misapprehension. Psiguard and I have affirmed in our previous posts the understanding that hell is merely a realm devoid of God. By translation of those who are among that religion, anywhere without God is a trifling place to be. To others, this may not be the case. Believing in God and believing in the power of his forgiveness will ultimately ensure that in the afterlife you don't end up in such a state. For an atheist, hell must be paradise since God will have no affiliation with such a domain, though, to Christians, a place without God is more than likely to be a place of suffering.[/quote]